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Declassified: Vietnam Atrocities

by: Maryscott O'Connor

Sun Aug 06, 2006 at 11:54:58 AM PDT






I've been spending more time with my family and much less online these past few days, so this is probably not news to anyone but me, but I read a very long, in-depth article in today's Los Angeles Times and literally had to concentrate to keep from throwing up.

What made it all the more horrifying for me, on a personal level, was that the focal point of this report, the atrocities spotlighted in it, took place on the same day my father was killed in Vietnam. While he led his Alpha Company Marines against the brutal and futile siege at Khe Sanh, several members of the U.S. Army's B Company participated in a grotesque massacre of 19  and innocent civilians -- old men, young women, children and babies.

And, even irrespective of the infamous massacre at My Lai, this newly revealed atrocity was not an isolated incident. Not by a long shot.




Maryscott O'Connor :: Declassified: Vietnam Atrocities




... Now, nearly 40 years later, declassified Army files show that Henry was telling the truth — about the Feb. 8 killings and a series of other atrocities by the men of B Company.

The files are part of a once-secret archive, assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s, that shows that confirmed atrocities by U.S. forces in Vietnam were more extensive than was previously known.

The documents detail 320 alleged incidents that were substantiated by Army investigators — not including the most notorious U.S. atrocity, the 1968 My Lai massacre.

. . .

Among the substantiated cases in the archive:

•  Seven massacres from 1967 through 1971 in which at least 137 civilians died.

•  Seventy-eight other attacks on noncombatants in which at least 57 were killed, 56 wounded and 15 sexually assaulted.

•  One hundred forty-one instances in which U.S. soldiers tortured civilian detainees or prisoners of war with fists, sticks, bats, water or electric shock.

. . .

On Oct. 8, 1967, after a firefight near Chu Lai, members of his company spotted a 12-year-old boy out in a rainstorm. He was unarmed and clad only in shorts.

"Somebody caught him up on a hill, and they brought him down and the lieutenant asked who wanted to kill him," Henry told investigators.

Two volunteers stepped forward. One kicked the boy in the stomach. The other took him behind a rock and shot him, according to Henry's statement. They tossed his body in a river and reported him as an enemy combatant killed in action.

Three days later, B Company detained and beat an elderly man suspected of supporting the enemy. He had trouble keeping pace as the soldiers marched him up a steep hill.

"When I turned around, two men had him, one guy had his arms, one guy had his legs and they threw him off the hill onto a bunch of rocks," Henry's statement said.

On Oct. 15, some of the men took a break during a large-scale "search-and-destroy" operation. Henry said he overheard a lieutenant on the radio requesting permission to test-fire his weapon, and went to see what was happening.

He found two soldiers using a Vietnamese man for target practice, Henry said. They had discovered the victim sleeping in a hut and decided to kill him for sport.

"Everybody was taking pot shots at him, seeing how accurate they were," Henry said in his statement.

Back at base camp on Oct. 23, he said, members of the 1st Platoon told him they had ambushed five unarmed women and reported them as enemies killed in action. Later, members of another platoon told him they had seen the bodies.

. . .

The next morning, the men packed up their gear and continued their sweep of the countryside. Soldiers discovered an unarmed man hiding in a hole and suspected that he had supported the enemy the previous day. A soldier pushed the man in front of an armored personnel carrier, Henry said in his statement.

"They drove over him forward which didn't kill him because he was squirming around, so the APC backed over him again," Henry's statement said.

Then B Company entered a hamlet to question residents and search for weapons. That's where Henry set down his weapon and lighted a cigarette in the shelter of a hut.

A radio operator sat down next to him, and Henry was listening to the chatter. He heard the leader of the 3rd Platoon ask Reh for instructions on what to do with 19 civilians.

"The lieutenant asked the captain what should be done with them. The captain asked the lieutenant if he remembered the op order (operation order) that came down that morning and he repeated the order which was 'kill anything that moves,' " Henry said in his statement. "I was a little shook … because I thought the lieutenant might do it."

Henry said he left the hut and walked toward Reh. He saw the captain pick up the phone again, and thought he might rescind the order.

Then soldiers pulled a naked woman of about 19 from a dwelling and brought her to where the other civilians were huddled, Henry said.

"She was thrown to the ground," he said in his statement. "The men around the civilians opened fire and all on automatic or at least it seemed all on automatic. It was over in a few seconds. There was a lot of blood and flesh and stuff flying around…"

"I looked around at some of my friends and they all just had blank looks on their faces…. The captain made an announcement to all the company, I forget exactly what it was, but it didn't concern the people who had just been killed. We picked up our stuff and moved on."

. . .

I can't go on.  Reading this, I felt nothing so much as the keen sense that all the barbarism we watch on the History channel, from which we feel so removed, is still very much alive within our species. And I cannot make sense of it. I do not know what it is that allows some human beings to perpetrate cruelties upon others, or upon animals, or, taken to the logical conclusion, upon the earth itself. I know only that I am also a human being, but not one of them.

Oh, yes, I feel superior -- to the extent that one takes pride in having overcome those baser instincts now relegated to the status of "inhumane." But wait -- what's this I see? Rows and rows of leather shoes in my closet; a freezer full of animal flesh, killed and packaged neatly so I might believe myself "above" the barbarism...


Abuses were not confined to a few rogue units, a Times review of the files found. They were uncovered in every Army division that operated in Vietnam.

That's the trajectory of my thoughts of late. It all comes back to me, to my own hypocrisy. I am horrified by the "inhumanity" of man toward man and beast and land, but everywhere I look, in the crevices and mesas of my own existence, I find microcosmic reflections of it.

But this isn't therapy... not now. I'll leave you with the most sensible statement I've read from a military man in a long time, taken from the same Los Angeles Times article that left me reeling in pain and confusion and despair:


Retired Brig. Gen. John H. Johns, a Vietnam veteran who served on the task force, says he once supported keeping the records secret but now believes they deserve wide attention in light of alleged attacks on civilians and abuse of prisoners in Iraq.

"We can't change current practices unless we acknowledge the past," says Johns, 78.

All emphases in quoted material are mine.




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Crossposted at DKos, recommend if you like: (11.00 / 17)

DKOS VERSION

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

My opening DKos comment: (10.43 / 7)

It's a very, very long article

And painful to read -- but worth it.

Evreything old is new again...

Those who do not remember (or fucking RECORD) history are doomed to repeat it...

There are an awful lot of lessons here which just never seem to be LEARNED by our crappy little species.

This earth might be well rid of us.



--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
I can hear it now (9.00 / 7)
all over the Right wing press and blogs - "bad things happen in a war. You've got to expect these sort of things".

They think that they are making sense but they are totally missing the point. The point is that this kind of atrocity does happen in war so we should not enter into them lightly and without a damn good reason.

They don't realize that they are making a point for us: when you enter into a war for the wrong reasons and you know and admit that atrocities happen then you are complicit in the atrocities because you let the circumstances arise which create crimes which you know will happen.

You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action. - Lee Iacocca


If . . . (5.00 / 1)
Dear Ron . . .

If I believed in any war, I would agree.  I think there is never a good reason for entering, exiting, or being at war.

It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Jethro Tull . . . Betsy
BeThink.org


[ Parent ]
Not even WWI & WWII? (5.50 / 2)
How 'bout the American Civil War? I'm not being confrontational but really trying to understand.

If you were Poland & Austria in 1939 would you have agreed with those who fought the Germans even if it wasn't much of a fight? What about the Russians who fought the invading Germans in WWII?

As much as I agree that they are the most horrible invention of humans I think sometimes you've got to fight to truly defend and not this fake "defending American values" that Bush engages in. I'm talking about true defense of life and liberty.

Maybe I'm being naive in framing it this way so that is why I'm willing to listen to other perspectives.

Also, I can absolutely understand and support individuals saying "No, I'm not getting involved" and I would fight for that person's right to not participate.

You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action. - Lee Iacocca


[ Parent ]
I appreciate . . . war delays what comes in other forms, at other times, and it does little to truly improve humanity. (10.00 / 2)
Dear Ron . . .

I appreciate that you truly are asking and not choosing to create conflict.  I too think communication is ideal.

While I am not the best at recounting specifics, I recall, with each reading or study of these wars my conclusion was the same.  We, in America and in other nations wait.  We allow for circumstances that are clearly detrimental to society; however, until they affect us personally, we do little or nothing.

In truth, as I have mentioned in other essays, I think all wars have their foundation in economics.  Economics and egocentricity seem to govern many national decisions.  When I hear people speak of capitalizing on the oil in Cuba, just as they had before we invaded Iraq, I shutter.  When Lincoln declares Blacks are not equal and the Emancipation Act was meant to create a Union.  When Hitler and Mussolini gather forces because there is economic strife . . .

I do not think any of our wars have ended any others; nor do I believe they have been solutions.  I experience that war delays what comes in other forms, at other times, and it does little to truly improve humanity.

It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Jethro Tull . . . Betsy
BeThink.org


[ Parent ]
You make great points. (11.00 / 1)
Certainly enough for me to give it more thought. What I hadn't considered was how much those wars obstensibly caused by others were indeed maybe caused by a situation that could've been forseen and short-circuited ahead of time.

Thank you. You've given me a course of study in this area.

You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action. - Lee Iacocca


[ Parent ]
I thank you so much for asking and understanding. (11.00 / 1)
Dear Ron . . .

I thank you so much for asking and understanding. 

I often feel as Maryscott recently wrote of herself, I do not memorize fact after fact or statistics.  For me, the concept is far more comprehensive; those I recall vividly.  I appreciate that even without numerous names and dates you were able to relate.

In high school and in college I had some very fine, deep thinking Social and Political Science teachers.  They let me be I.  I ask zillions of questions and discuss infinitely.  No matter what the course of study, where war was concerned, the more I learned the more I realized that wars could have been prevented, often decades before they began. 

Perhaps that is why the facts for me do not tell the full story.  December 7, 1941 was not the day World War II began.  It did not commence in 1939.  If you study the lives of the leaders, I believe a student can see the destruction began long before a bomb or a bullet was shot.

Again, I thank you for asking.  I think we exemplify the benefits of discussion and discovery.

It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Jethro Tull . . . Betsy
BeThink.org


[ Parent ]
Young Man in a Diner: A Play in One Act (9.43 / 7)
A young man sits in a diner, smoking and drinking coffee and reading a history book.  A fifty-something man with a graying beard sits in the booth to his left

OLDER MAN:  Whatcha readin'?

YOUNG MAN:  Hmm?  Oh, a history book.  'Bout the Civil War.

OLDER MAN:  Yeah, military history is interesting.  Good to see young people interested in it. 

YOUNG MAN:  Thanks, I wish more were interested in history in general.

OLDER MAN:  A lot of that isn't history for me.

YOUNG MAN:  What do you mean? 

OLDER MAN:  I did a couple tours in Vietnam.

YOUNG MAN:  Oh yeah? 

OLDER MAN:  Yeah, this Iraq shit reminds me a lot of that.

The young man brightens, sensing he's found a kindred soul 

YOUNG MAN:  Pretty fucked up, ain't it?

OLDER MAN:  More than fucked up.  It's the same problem we had then--they won't let use enough force to get the job done.

The young man begins to sense he hasn't found a kindred spirit after all

YOUNG MAN:  Not enough force? 

OLDER MAN:  Yeah, like the ruckus raised about Abu Ghraib.  We need to torture people more, so they'll break quicker and tell us everything we need to know.

YOUNG MAN:  Doesn't it seem likely they'll tell you whatever  you want to hear just to make the hurting stop?

OLDER MAN:  Let me tell you a story.  We'd captured a couple VC and hustled them on a helicopter.  My lieutenant asked them where their base of operations was and they wouldn't talk.  We were several hundred feet up by then, so he grabbed one and threw him out of the copter.  The other told us everything we wanted to know after that.

Young man mumbles something inaudible and rushes to pay his bill and get out of there, feeling sick to his stomach
*******************

The point of that rather tedious exercise you ask?  That guy casually confessed to being a witness to a war crime to me, without even realizing what he did.  How many dozens or hundreds or even thousands of individual stories are there similar to that one?  They went entirely unreported and unrecorded.

We know about My Lai.  There are these new revelations.

We know about Abu Ghraib and Haditha.

Which makes you wonder:  What don't we know?  What will we never know?

The mind recoils.

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.


Thanks for the diary... (8.50 / 4)
here and at Kos.  This shit has to be exposed. At some point this country has to face the karma we have created thru centuries of barbarism.  Only by facing it can we hope to overcome these destructive tendencies.  If we don't, ultimately it will destroy us.

America needs Al Gore!

I'd always suspected (8.17 / 6)
that My Lai was far from being an isolated incident. Look at all the fucked-up soldiers that came back from Vietnam. My Lai alone wouldn;t accounted for all those PTSD-addled soldiers and shootings and suicides.

And the US will be hearing about atrocities in Iraq until long after you and I are dead, MSOC.

Anyway, dunno where Frank Rich is this fine Sunday, but will Nicholas Kristof do?

"Because sometimes the best things to say are the things better left unsaid."


Enemy Combatant: Mozem Begg (5.86 / 7)
Enemy Combatant was, I thought,  an interesting book to read by Mozem Begg a British Muslim who was in Bagram, Kandahar and Guantanmo prisons over a period of years. He was recently released with no charges placed against him.

He describes the mentality of the people in these prison camps and the interrogators. With few exceptions the people in the armed forces he was in contact with could only be described as moronic, brutal  and unbearbly dim.

The book, I suppose gives an accurate picture of American cruelty. It really does seem that Americans have long been crueler than a lot of other nations in their treatment of the people they are fighting and even each other.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


Yup (7.00 / 3)
us Americans are special.

No pussy-ass beheadings for us.

Or chopping off hands for stealing.

Or pushing stone walls on people for homosexuality.

Or raping and killing women for infidelity.

Too civilized.

We're especially cruel and inhuman.

American exceptionalism Baby.

Fuck Ya!


(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
If a Wehrmacht prisoner... (9.00 / 1)
...could manage to surrender without being shot in WWII and get to the U.S., the amazing thing is how absolutely decently most of them were treated.  They were allowed freedom of movement.  They went to movies and to coffee shops and worked on farms.  Some of them even dated and married local girls! 

Black soldiers commented that these enemy soldiers--POWs, mind you--were treated better than native black Americans.

Which to me only highlights the horrid racial undertones--or overtones, really--of the treatment of POWs since then.

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.


[ Parent ]
european wars have been the exception (8.40 / 5)
most american wars have been patterned off of the indian wars, with all of the racism, eliminational thuggery, and rhetoric of civilizing at the point of a gun that grew out of the experience of westward expansion.

the way these things are framed is creepily similar.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat


[ Parent ]
We've been in Iraq before... (6.00 / 1)
...only then it was called "The Philippines" 

I think we managed to avoid any large scale atrocities against the Mexican populace in the 1840's.  But I'm not an expert there. 

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.


[ Parent ]
yup (6.00 / 1)
although the phillippines didn't control a resource critical to mckinley-era america's economy, heating and food production.

nah, we're thinking like injun extermination raids, and sailing towards syracuse with our eyes hubristically shut. the general custers of today risk far more than their own personal annihilation and loss of national face.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat


[ Parent ]
Cognitive dissonance? (6.00 / 2)
When my peers on the Left bemusedly ask themselves how people could actually believe that we hate America, they need only read an ignorant statement like this, that sadly people here are recommending:

"The book, I suppose gives an accurate picture of American cruelty. It really does seem that Americans have long been crueler than a lot of other nations in their treatment of the people they are fighting and even each other."

Sad.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
America Supports the Taliban (10.00 / 1)
The cruelty first and foremost is the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, the support of Israel in it's war on Lebanon....then there is the cruelty of the individuals.

Mozem Begg had something to say about the Taliban. He said the Taliban (just the word Taliban makes everybody start screaming....i know) brought peace and order to Afghanistan and got rid of the opium trade and sex trade of children (something I didn't know about) Apparetly the tribes sold children to each other to be used as sex slaves.

This has all returned according to Begg. So there no question that Afghanistan is a drug empire involved is sex trading instead of a fundamentalist empire that limits peoples freedom.

When the Russians were running things it was much better. But when America supported the TALIBAN so they could take over, then things went haywire and the warlords became strong...as they were supported too in fighting the Russians.

If you don't like the Taliban....you can ask why did America support them in the first place?

If you don't like The warlods you can ask why did America support them in the first place.

If you don't like Karzai you can ask why did America put him in power?

America keeps changing the leaders of all these nations...whenever it gets the idea that it doesn't like them anymore.

You don't like Muslim radical fundamentalists who act as terrrists?

All you have to do is ask why America supported them in the first place.

If America had left the rest of the world alone, we wouldn't be having these problems.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
So you (9.00 / 1)
want to make the point that U.S. foreign policy is and has been brutal, selfish, shortsighted and ultimately reesponsible for a lot of the strife the world is currently facing?

OK, that's a very reasonable assertion, one upon which facts can be brought forth and demonstrated.

It's when you go off the rails with your bullshit absurdist statements that somehow Americans are some special demons, far, far worse than any other people on earth that I do and will continue to call BULLSHIT.

I'm not interested in being marginalized any longer because of my colleagues to the left who have in some cases very rightly earned their designation as the "loony left".

I'm nearly as abhorred by the idea of being associated with you and your ideas as I am with those of the current administration.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
Sick America (0.00 / 0)
Jake Said:
"So you want to make the point that U.S. foreign policy is and has been brutal, selfish, shortsighted and ultimately reesponsible for a lot of the strife the world is currently facing?
OK, that's a very reasonable assertion, one upon which facts can be brought forth and demonstrated.

It's when you go off the rails with your bullshit absurdist statements that somehow Americans are some special demons, far, far worse than any other people on earth that I do and will continue to call BULLSHIT."

Well, if America's foreign policy is brutal, selfish, shortsighted and utlimately responsible for a lot of the strife in the world....uh....doesn't that make America a pretty bad country? I mean the scale of America's brutality as you put it is much greater than say....oh Canada or Mexico or Brazil, or Russia or China...what's that leave....This is the only country in the world with it's armies all over in other peoples countries and some of the American armies are making war......so it appears to me that you can, thought I havent' called Americans "special demons".

I just think America is an awful violent nation that's causing a lot of people a lot of grief for no reason. And I feel sorry for those people, not the Americans.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
I agree that it is "loony left" to argue that (0.00 / 0)
the U.S. is more brutal or evil than China.

Mao's China killed how many in the "Great Leap Forward" and "Cultural Revolution"?  I've seen estimates of more than 40,000,000.  By comparison, Johnson and Nixon in Vietnam were amateurs.  Today, oppression is widespread in China.  Chinese client states have been amongst the most despotic.  Equating the U.S. to China is pretty loony. 



[ Parent ]
I'm not sure the book says that. (0.00 / 0)
I haven't read it, but I did watch an excellent interview of Moazzam Begg which Amy Goodman had on Democracy Now! recently. He impressed me as amazingly intelligent, articulate and sane -- yet not particularly anti-American. The interview is in 2 parts:
Part 1
Part 2
I recommend it most highly.

Burnet O (-8.31,-6.31)
Resist tyranny


[ Parent ]
Goes hand in hand, doesn't it? (9.00 / 3)
As the article indicates, why weren't more charges brought up about such killings?  Because, the explanation goes, we wanted to forget Vietnam.

And at the same time, Ford gives Nixon a pardon, so that we can get Watergate behind us.  And that set the stage for Iran-Contra pardons a decade later.

We never faced up to what really happened in Vietnam or Watergate.  And so, instead of upholding the law, we glossed over the law.

Nobody got punished.  And so things festered and morphed both in the senior levels of civilian government and in the military.  And that brings us to where we are today.

Nobody cares about the law.  The Party in power is constantly on the take; the Chief Executive is the new Sun King.  A few bad apples at Abu Ghraib?  No, far deeper than that.

(Hence if one of the rallying cries of the Republicans for this election is that they think the Democrats should pledge not to waste the country's time with this icky law and investigation stuff - I hope that is a pledge that will not be made.)

 


War is hell! (10.50 / 4)
We need to get over the concept that they are ever justified.

how cosmic a connection (10.33 / 3)
Dearest Maryscott . . .

What a powerful piece and how cosmic a connection.  Online, physically, and psychologically you are one with your family.

I have been away all day.  I too came to My Left Wing to speak of war.  I hope to offer an opportunity for reflection, a meaningful means for peace.  I will not share “practical policies”; these are pulsating through the press and are being discussed on many blogs.

I do not wish to engage as Condie, Cheney, Bolton, or Bush do.  I want no war.  I am presenting a proven path.

I too am writing of history and telling a tale that was left untold for so long.  Historians and the politicians preferred to posture.  Thus, they hid this story. 

Maryscott, I think you were meant to read of your Dad and tragedies that occurred on the day of his passing while you are with family.  My wish is that my message of hope will give you some.

It is only the giving that makes us what [who] we are. - Ian Anderson. Jethro Tull . . . Betsy
BeThink.org


All war is avoidable (11.00 / 1)
So why do we not have full diplomatic relations with Iran? If we did we could talk about solving Iraq and Lebanon and maybe even creating a nuclear weapons free zone from the Mediterranean Sea to the Bay of Bengal. Perhaps those that make the rules really do not want war because it reduces their profits? Peace

That should be "do not want Peace" (7.00 / 3)
We all know that war is what they want. Peace

I wish you had read further. (11.00 / 1)
There were a few bits that made me feel like not slitting my wrists today.
Hundreds of soldiers, in interviews with investigators and letters to commanders, described a violent minority who raped and tortured with impunity.

I take hope in reading that there were hundreds of soldiers who knew that what they were seeing was wrong and who tried to stop it. The military system, the command structure, the leadership, clearly did not want it stopped (the longest sentence, for "committing indecent acts on a 13-year-old girl", of 20 years ended up with only 7 months served). However, they clearly did want to keep the atrocities hidden. The apparent motivation of monitoring "war crimes allegations" was to give Westmoreland an early warning of any new Mai Lai type of revelations.

The incident described by Pvt. Henry, which was corroberated extensively by his fellow soldiers, clearly shows the culpability of the commanders. Company B was sent on a mission to search for weapons and question villagers. LtCol William W Taylor Jr (retired as a Col in 1977 & now living in northern VA) was supervising from an overhead helicopter. Lt Johnny Mack Carter (now a retired postal worker living in Florida) was commanding the 3rd Platoon when they captured 19 civilians (mostly women, children, babies, plus 2 very old men). Lt. Carter radioed his commander Capt Donald C Reh (West Point '64) to ask what to do with the prisoners. Capt Reh contacted the battalion commander Lt Col Taylor and was told "If they move, shoot them." He passed this command on to Lt Carter. Lt Carter asked for volunteers to kill the villagers. Only one soldier volunteered -- the guy they called "Crazy", Pvt Frank Bonilla. The machine-gunning was done by Lt Carter and "Crazy" (who today says he couldn't shoot the women & kids and didn't pull his trigger).

What else do I find hopeful? The perpetrators are not completely at ease today. Capt Reh clearly has fear of accountabilty and will not discuss it on his attorney's advice. Col Taylor can't believe he could have done such a thing, "It's not in my makeup." Carter doesn't remember anything -- "I've wiped Vietnam ... out of my mind" -- although he acknowledges that it may have happened.

This incident was not a breakdown of discipline or order. A military command structure exists (at least partly) because there exist sociopaths or individuals at a moral breaking point, and war provides an opportunity for them to do their worst UNLESS they are restrained by their commanders. There are rules of engagement and laws of war. When these are violated systematically then the responsibility lies with the commanders for not enforcing them and for their failure of leadership. Leadership in Vietnam was aimed at politics -- lying well, covering ass, making things look better than the were.

When the leadership itself is sadistic and sociopathic, as it is today, you get what we have today, which depresses the hell out of me when it doesn't totally enrage me.  I keep thinking "Cry havoc and let lose the dogs of war."

By the way, these 9,000 pages of investigations have apparently been re-classified and only the 3,000 pages copied by the LA Times remain available.

Burnet O (-8.31,-6.31)
Resist tyranny


I hope you mean, (11.00 / 1)

"I wish you had QUOTED further."

Because believe me, I read the whole thing, repeatedly.

Yes, there is much hope to be taken from the fact that many, MANY more did NOT perpetrate atrocities, and that many DID report the atrocities they witnessed. But lately, I wonder if there is ENOUGH hope in that truth. That perhaps history is written by the vicious. Whoever is the more vicious ends up winning in this crooked world in which we live.

Sigh. I haven't much more to say on this topic, but I wanted to respond to your comment, simply because, well, my ego, really -- it seemed to imply I hadn't actually READ the piece on which I was commenting, and I never do that.

Almost never.

: )

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
apologies (0.00 / 0)
I didn't mean to insult you; you mentioned not being able to read the entire piece. Actually the bit I quoted came from before you quit reading.

I wanted to quote more, but the article was IMHO terribly written, jumbled, confusing. I finally had to go back & reread it, taking notes about the characters & sketching pictures of the action. The image of the LtCol giving orders from a helicopter overhead piqued my interest.

Burnet O (-8.31,-6.31)
Resist tyranny


[ Parent ]


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