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Suicide by Ambien? Tales from the Psych Ward

by: care11

Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 20:58:35 PM PST









MSOC mentioned the psych ward, ambien, and sleepwalking; well here's my tale. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what happened last weekend to my suddenly psychotic and suicidal husband, who is now resting comfortably at the VA Hospital psych ward. I've written about him before online: he's a Vietnam Vet, a writer, and he has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).  He has insomnia from the PTSD, and he gets anxiety over the insomnia, so he wants something always on hand to help him fall asleep and was taking Ambien off and on for a year.


He's had some occasional struggles with his PTSD, and sometimes the IRAQ War really brings him down, particularly for the last 2 weeks, but for the most part he's fairly happy and feels successful. Then, over the weekend, he suddenly became extremely suicidal for no apparent reason; if I hadn't been there, he would have unconsciously killed himself, he was that determined. Friday night he tried to shoot himself with a pistol; he had some shoelaces tied together to hang himself; he tried to drown in the icy, cold river; and he took seven Ambien pills between 10 pm and 4 am.


After he thankfully emerged out of his blank zombie state the next afternoon (alive despite the overdose), he had no recollection of trying to kill himself. In fact, he felt great, and was happy I stopped him, because he didn't feel like dying, and he didn't remember wanting to commit suicide. Then on Sunday, he snapped back into the zombie state again, and tried to harm or kill himself in various ways until we got some Kava kava, Valerian, and Valium into him and he conked out at 1:30 am.


Monday I took him to his therapist and she recommended an emergency psych evaluation at the VA Hospital. They wanted to admit him to the psych ward, due to his hallucinations, delusions, and paranoia, and they thought he could be Schizophrenic. He's coming home tomorrow after getting some good sleep this week, and now they think he could have a little Bipolar II illness instead.  The doctor wasn't impressed by my ambien suicide zombie diagnosis, but I wanted to post it online, for the record. Last night I googled "ambien + suicide" and I'll tell you what I found:





care11 :: Suicide by Ambien? Tales from the Psych Ward







First up is a similarly horrifying story from 2000 - it sounded like the same thing that happened in our household Friday and Sunday nights!


I was prescribed Ambien for at least two years and experienced profound Amnesia with each dose- not every night , but a lot. One day, after a period of increasing depression, I attempted suicide (very nearly successful). I had no plans to do this and as it was happening, I felt like I was watching a movie. I was completely dissociated from what was going on. It was very disturbing for me and my family, so we looked it up in the Physicians Desk Reference (PDR). It outlined that Ambien should be given for a short period of time (7-10 days) and the patient watched carefully. Side effects listed included: Deepening depression, depersonalization, and suicidal tendencies, (among others). I experienced all of these side effects and one or two of the others that escape me right now.


Poor guy. Nobody answered. I hope he stopped taking ambien and lived to sleep another night.


And then I found an Ambien Zombie messageboard at Topix.net having to do with this year old story called,


How Many Ambien Patients Get Up at Night and Remember Nothing?


The comments start out fairly tame, cooking or cleaning all night while sleepwalking, having great sex in new positions and not remembering. But by the last page of testimony, many deadly serious accounts have been told, such as no memory of driving cars or eating meals, and sudden, unexplained suicides by usually content people.


"My mom has commited suicide at 59 years old. She was a loving mother and devoted grandmother to my twins. she lived and breathed them. We spoke 4 to 5 times a day and called to tell my children goodnight each night. After 1 day on this drug, the calls stopped, she became paranoid and said we were laughing behind her back. After a weekend get a way with the whole family, 10 minutes from the time she got back home she shot herself in the head. This is a woman that had no mental illnesses, lived life to the fullest, shopped for her grandchildren DAILY! Lived her whole life in happiness and 8 pills later my mom is dead."


My Husband's Ambien side effects Experience:

Over the past year, he had been getting more  depressed over the Iraq War and the lying idiots in the White House; plus his insomnia and sleep anxiety was worse. He takes everything to try and fall asleep: kava kava, Valerian, chamomile tea, melatonin, blue over the counter tabs; the VA prescribed him some kind of old-fashioned sleeping spills, but he didn't like or use them much.  He reads, meditates, and listens to soothing music.


About a year ago, he started taking Ambien, the most popular and prescribed sleep medication, and it helped him get to sleep at first, and sleep until morning. He got the prescription through my health insurance, not the VA, and we didn't think much of it, because he seemed to like it. He took one pill at night, probably for two to three weeks at a time, and went for periods of a week or two without using it or refilling it frequently. So it seemed like he was using it safely. 


Looking back, I can see he was getting more prone to depression, which was unusual, because he had been doing okay with his PTSD for several years, and we had a really good life together. But he'd occasionally get depressed and go on crying jags, throwing himself onto the ground in despair, injuring himself. I didn't suspect Ambien side effects might be contributing to his emotional pain, even though those are some of the negative Ambien side effects listed: depression, depersonalization, suicidal tendencies. He was seeing a therapist - social worker through the VA, and she was helping him with the depression and other issues, so I thought he was working through it.


Paranoia's much too high: He started getting extremely paranoid and delusional early last week, worried somebody had shot out the neighbors' windows and poisoned their dog's water. It didn't happen, and I had to keep reminding him that it didn't happen. Tuesday he had spilled a little anti-freeze on the ground while repairing his truck radiator, and he thought our dog almost drank it, and he really over-reacted.  No harm was done; the spill was cleaned up 100%, all anti-freeze stored in closed containers and transported to the dump center for proper disposal by Wednesday. 


But he began to get more and more paranoid about the ground water, then paranoid about the town's water system being contaminated by his anti freeze.... Until by Friday morning he began imagining / hallucinating that he had poisoned our town's water system with anti-freeze and all the babies were killed. And he believed that he had confessed his crime to the police, and implicated his Vet buddy. He believed  the police were coming to arrest him over the anti-freeze murders, and that I would be taken prisoner and we'd all be tortured. Crazy Talk, eh? To prove it, nobody poured any anti freeze in the well system, and nobody came to arrest him over it. In fact, the water system comes from a well that is fed by an aquifer, and has little to due with ground water or run-off near our home. He imagined and hallucinated all of it and got more and more paranoid.  He started thinking suicide was the answer to saving us from being tortured (although he only said this in tiny bits and pieces over the weekend, I'm just now sorting it all out, trying to get the doctors to listen to me).


At first we thought it was a PTSD flashback, because he got "the look" in his eyes of the lost soldier. Our Vietnam Vet buddy and a Vet's counselor, stayed with him for part of the first night after he had became suicidal for no apparent reason.  They felt he was having some kind of PTSD episode, talking about murdering babies. By 10pm, hubby seemed well enough to leave alone with me for the night, although he was not talking and behaving like a zombie with a blank, empty stare. I thought he'd sit there, we'd talk, and he'd eventually fall asleep. But as the night wore on, I realized he was a zombie hell-bent on suicide. He paced the floor, drinking lots of water, planning ways to kill himself, lunging for weapons. 


He finally fell asleep at 4:30 am after all the Ambien knocked him out. By Saturday afternoon he came out of it, although still had some paranoia. He was happy he didn't kill himself, but didn't remember anything.  He slept well that night, and Sunday morning he seemed back to normal.  But then he impulsively took the car out for a drive and didn't come back for 5 hours, and somebody who had seen him said he was looking and acting like a zombie!  Finally he came home, fully into his zombie suicide state.  I wasn't sure of its whereabouts, but sure enough he found the shotgun later that night. When I finally convinced him to put the shotgun down and I tried to carry it away, he grabbed it back and we did that scene in the movies, where two people struggle back and forth over the shotgun, in this case only one of them desiring to have his head blown off.


Pretty scary stuff went on last weekend, and I think the Ambien had something to do with it. Please be careful if you or your loved ones or co-workers are taking this medication. Lordy. Maybe some of the meta meltdowns we are seeing on the blogs are from people taking Ambien and logging on as  as psychotic zombies. Sleep blogging, heh?


Lastly, Suicide attempts / tools I witnessed this past weekend, using the POLL feature (No Need to Answer, it's a really bad joke, that seemd hilarious on very little sleep. The whole suicide scene was like a bizarre movie comedy. However, I apologize for making light of a serious matter and would delete the POLL if I could):





Poll
best or worst suicide methods?
.22 Pistol
Shoelaces tied together
8” Chef’s knife to inside back of throat
Drowning in river
Ambien multi-dose
Shotgun
Horse lead - rope
3 pairs Scissors
Hunting rifle
Exposure to freezing temperatures

Results

Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
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ever tried AMBIEN? (2.00 / 1)
Share your tales of Ambien use or suggest a good sleeping medication for my dear hubby. We both need a good night's sleep!

holy fuck care11! (7.67 / 3)
i can't even answer your poll, but thank you so much for telling us about this danger.  How fucking horrible you both had to go through that.

I do know I have 2 friends who had no-memory absolutely psychotically violent episodes on Paxil, and having a few drinks. 

I know that people have different reactions to things to.  If I take "may make you drowsy" stuff, I get hyper; I have reverse reactions to so many things I take almost nothing.

Maybe thats why I'm still awake tonight!  I took benadryl earlier for a reaction I had to some peppers.  OY.

Rule of thumb, if any new med makes you feel weird, stop taking it and call your Dr.!!!!


[ Parent ]
good advice, Diane (0.00 / 0)
I guess because he has some anxiety and insomnia and depression issues before taking AMbien, I didn't attribute it to the meds. But we should have had him get off of it sooner, when he got more and more depressed. But who isn't depressed over the war and Bush? lol It seemed reasonable. Now I know what to watch for in psychosis-like medication side effects.

The doctor recommended benadryl to him for a sleeping pill. He wants to take something else, but I'm not letting him take Ambien again if we are going to be together. I'm not going through that insane bullshit again.


[ Parent ]
my Mother in law (5.50 / 2)
takes up to 4 benadryl at night to sleep.  Yeah, unless I have an actual reaction(bee sting or something) it doesn't make me tired at all.

Its not your or his fault.  It is a chemical reaction, and the body & brain are chemical machines.  My sympathies are with you..


[ Parent ]
I have an IV infusion of Remicade (8.00 / 3)
every 8 weeks, and the first thing they do is give me a shot of benadryl through the IV.  Four minutes later I feel it hit my brain -- I am suddenly light-headed, and I sleep for most of the 2-3 hours the medicine is being administered.  So not only do I have the Remicade to suppress the symptoms of Crohn's disease for another two months but I also get a nice nap, since about half the time I lay awake for a couple of hours a night.

My system is funky -- I took one pill -- a muscle relaxant that is so mild the dosage is two pills three times a day -- that knocked me for a loop for 18 hours.  And yet the epidurals I had for my first two deliveries did nothing for the pain but instead just made me feel out of control. 

Care11 -- I am so sorry you and your husband have gone and are going through this. 

Obama 2012.  Because he didn't piss off enough people the first time around.


[ Parent ]
Benadryl is excellent for sleep (5.00 / 1)
It's a very old-fashioned antihistamine, used for decades; the sleepiness is an annoying side-effect when it's taken for allergies. I took it as a kid for my hay fever; too much and my mother had a nice peaceful afternoon.

Seriously, if Benadryl works for him as a sleeper, the usual side effect is just some residual grogginess. And it's OTC and cheap. It should be used with caution in men with an enlarged prostate, though.

IIRC, sleepwalking---and sleepeating, cleaning out a fridge by stuffing your face---have been reported with Ambien. I think that was one of the drugs Patrick Kennedy had taken when the DC cops stopped him.

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
sleep driving (0.00 / 0)
I think that's right about Patrick Kenneday - and a lot of other traffic stops.
Ambien Zombies behind the wheel and on the highway.
A really scary thought.

The low dose of Risperidone he supposed to take for a month seems to help him sleep. So far he hasn't had to take the Benadryl, but in the past he's said it's made him a bit groggy the next day. That's a good tip to just use benadryl - I know it makes me sleepy if I take it. It has the opposite effect on my little brother -- he gets hyper and starts spinning in circles.


[ Parent ]
I used it off and on for a while (3.50 / 2)
but developed severe vertigo from it so bad I couldn't walk down the street the next day.  I took it with a benzodiazepine once and rather than put me to sleep simply wiped my memory of the rest of the evening.

amnesia, too (7.50 / 2)
Uck. Vertigo. 

Some people say Ambien gives them amnesia, they have no memory of their actions.
Some of the ambien amnesia testimonials here are funny, sad, frightening.


[ Parent ]
I was unaware (7.50 / 2)
of the ambien amnesia testimonials before but I avoid the stuff like the plague as does my brother.  So much out there is more gasoline on the fire rather than a help or cure and its rare that a doc knows the difference.  Educating yourself and finding a doc that listens is the key.

[ Parent ]
Diagnosis (5.00 / 2)
Just a heads up on what the VA is doing, this according to the movie "The Ground Truth", a documentary by vets returning from Iraq and how how they are coping.  One thing the VA is doing is refusing to acknowledge PTSD and instead saying they are bi-polar, etc.  This lets the VA off the hook.  I don't know about the Ambien but just wanted to mention this as I noted you stated they used the term bi-polar.  Should you see this film, the doctor in the 'additional features' talks a bit about this fact.  Good luck to you both. 

wondering about that, too (9.00 / 1)
We'll try to see that film, thanks.

Yes, we noted that they suddenly were saying he was "bipolar" a while back, and now this. Could be true, he is kind of "manic" a lot of the time, but usually not depressed. Mostly he has classic PTSD insomnia,  imo.

On that Ambien side-effects blog I linked, someone was diagnosed bipolar II when they felt it was the Ambien giving the symptoms. That also caught my eye.


[ Parent ]
Don't know if this helps but... (5.00 / 1)
I remember on bbs.fuckedcompany.com, a poster called ambienboi would regularly describe how, if you take Ambien, but resist the urge to sleep, you'll get pretty powerful hallucinations and a bit of a buzz. As I recall, a lot of other posters on that board seemed to be into it, and to have similar effects.

Has your husband tried smoking weed... (9.00 / 1)
...for his insomnia? In California, at least, you can get a medical marijuana card from a doctor if you suffer from insomnia. And it works (though you'll forget your dreams).

NM Legislature (9.00 / 1)
He has tried that and it works the best! We are waiting to get medical marijuana passed here in New Mexico, so he can use the herb legally.

[ Parent ]
At the risk of once again being violently flamed, I repeat: It is ALL PonziWorld. (3.75 / 8)
Do not take or trust the products of Dr. Big Brother Pharma if you can possibly avoid doing so.

Not for mental or emotional problems, not for physical problems, not for ANY goddamned thing.

If you ARE taking them...find a non-drug based health provider and under their guidance cut down gradually. But please,. please, please  be careful...the symptoms of kicking ANY addiction, even fairly simple and common ones like tobacco and caffeine, can be devastating.

A word on alternative health care in the U.S. Since I first got involved in it 25+ years ago, this general approach to medical care has become MUCH more common and much less risky. There is a smaller percentage of quacks and there are many more available sincere medical practitioners of all sorts.

But there are drawbacks.

1-Quackery still abounds. Caveat emptor.

2-The generally accepted attitude of passivity in the face of medical all-knowingness...generally accepted because almost universally propagandized in the American media since the days of Dr. Kildare and people in medical drag doing commercials for Chesterfield cigarettes...does not work. YOU must take responsibility for your own health. This can be quite a shock for many of us, but it is the single most effective way to get healthier, and the web is an amazing resource in this direction. Feel bad? Go looking. A few hours on the internet will open your eyes in ways that I cannot even begin to describe.

3-As a general rule...look for an alternative health care provider with an M.D. They exist. People who have gone THROUGH the medical educational system as it now stands and found it at least to some degree lacking. people who use mainstream
modern medicine as one of many approaches to curing disease, not as the only way.

4-Be prepared to pay. The insurance racket and Dr. Big Brother are in cahoots. Bet on it. So-called "health insurance" is merely a Ponzi scheme to juice up prices. Health fraud. Witness the "laboratory" costs, for example. A doctor puts you through a battery of tests. Takes blood, urine and feces samples and sends tham to a lab. A month later...and this is by NO means uncommon..a bill arrives for $3000+, but since it is mostly covered by insurance, you do not pitch much of a bitch.

Ever stop to think how many working hours were involved in getting the results of those tests? Even factoring in administrative costs and overhead...do you imagine that it took the equivalent of even one whole 8 hour workday for one person to assemble those results? I know people who work in that industry, and you are WAY off. Actual labor and overhead costs? Probably less than $750, even in a top of the line lab. In may less...upright labs? Less. WAY less. Badly trained, McDonald's level techs are common in many of them.

You are being triple billed. More. And that money is there because of "insurance". Eyes wide shut, you pay in dribs and drabs...ever increasing dribs and drabs, you might notice, which is the hallmark of a Ponzi scheme...and passively accept the consequences.

And the entire mainstream medical care establishment is based on the same premise.

Soup to nuts.

Dentist to death bed.

As is most of the REST of this culture, this society.

Iraq?

Just more Scamerica.

Bet on it.

Step as far away from the whole scene as you can manage to move and still survive.

A good rule of thumb?

If a product or scene...Dr. Big Brother, mainstream food, the eternal new car/new appliance/new product/planned obsolescence scam, the whole political process as it now stands....is advertised to the tune of millions and millions of dollars?

Then it is PonziWorld.

Step AWAY from the scam, with your brains in the air.

Or go down with the Titanic.

Your choice.

We may all go down anyway, but only a general realization of the truth of the matter will stop the process that is now at full steam ahead.

From Wikipedia.

A Ponzi scheme usually offers abnormally high short-term returns in order to entice new investors. The high returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises (and pays) require an ever-increasing flow of money from investors in order to keep the scheme going.

The system is doomed to collapse because there are little or no underlying earnings from the money received by the promoter.

---snip---

  Today's schemes are often considerably more sophisticated than Ponzi's, although the underlying formula is quite similar and the principle behind every Ponzi scheme is to exploit lapses in judgment arising out of greed.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Charles Ponzi

Look familiar?

Seen that smirk before?

Yup.

Selling things on TV.

GET SOMETHING FOR ALMOST NOTHING!!!
JUST A LITTLE DOWN, AND NO PAYMENTS FOR SEVERAL CENTURIES!
WOULD I LIE TO YOU?
TRUST ME!!!

Bet on it.

In fact...bet AGAINST it.

Just as you must take responsibility for your political life instead of clomp clomp clomping along under the banner of a political party, so must you take responsibility for your own physical life as well.

I wish you nothing but the best.

Good health and a long and happy life to y'all...

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


Now a stand-alone post. (3.00 / 2)

Health care? PonziWorld. Scamerica. Caveat Emptor. PLEASE!!!

I only wish the best of health to one and all.

Later...

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Thank you. (0.00 / 0)
I read this, went to take a shower and thought I would ask you to consider it as an essay...lo and behold...already done!

I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. E. B. White

[ Parent ]
You are welcome. (0.00 / 0)
Really.

And now...does the post slowly sink into the blog horizon as do so many others, buried under a ton of meta soap opera essays and gabblefests, or does it get a rec or two so that maybe someone who could use the information might actually get a chance to see it?

Your call, asqv.

Yours and others'.

I do not like pimping my posts. I really do not. I do not even pimp my music, and that's what I really do.

But rconsider..."Thank you" 25 minutes ago and no rec?

Discouraging.

On this blog, it only takes one or two recommendations in the early life of a post to put it within easy sight of people coming through.

Think on it.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Alternative therapies (8.00 / 3)
can be just as dangerous as allopathic. More, sometimes; if herbal preparations aren't at a standard strength, overdosage is easy (one of the reasons we don't use an infusion of foxglove for congestive heart failure any more, for instance).

Moreover, frequently, all the evidence used to recommend an alternative treatment is anecdotal. No studies have been done for safety and activity. For instance, studies are finally being done on black cohosh, used in Europe and on the market here as Remifemin, for menopausal symptoms. Guess what: it's no more useful than placebo. Then there's the Chinese medicine for I forget what symptoms which was found to have high levels of lead salts. Marijuana is another matter; good studies have been done, and I've long known it is a safe effective drug, as do many doctors. The problem there is the idiotic "war" on drugs.

Lastly, despite your recurrent comments to the contrary, the last people doctors are "in cahoots" with are the insurers. We and the hospitals are constantly fighting with insurers to allow patients access to care, and, yes, to fucking pay us for the work we do. Right now, two hospitals in New York are suing a major insurer (United Health) under racketeering laws due to systematic denials of care, and of payment for care. Word around here is that the CEO of UH "made" something like $225 million last year. That's a hell of a lot of money not making it to patient care.

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
care 11, (10.00 / 2)
My heart goes out to you. I know what you live with. Sometimes people don't 'get ' black humor in the face of appalling circumstances.

  My husband uses Ambien and in his case, it's the best thing since sliced bread. He's been taking it since May 2001 and it has allowed him to sleep for at least 6 hours a night without the nightmares and terrors that plagued him for decades.

  You just can't tell what someone is going to have an adverse reaction to...I sincerely hope your husband is doing better and I want to lend you my support.

  My email address is in my profile if you want to talk.

I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. E. B. White


thanks so much (9.00 / 2)
I'm so happy to hear the Ambien works for your husband. I've heard other stories where people have never had any ill effects.

I think things are looking up here, as long as my guy stays away from Ambien.


[ Parent ]
Ultimately, all of these stories, or most of them, (8.00 / 3)
are, imo, either the direct or indirect results, or at the very least are aggravated by

Bush Fatigue (google it: 1,200,000 HITS).

It wasn't until the mid-80s that "PTSD" was added to the DSM (III) in the aftermath of the Vietnam War.

I wonder, will a future DSM have an entry for "Chronic Bush Fatigue"?

I wonder.

And I wish someone more qualified than I would do a study on the increase in mental health "issues" over the past 6 years.

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood


cross-posting at DK? (7.00 / 2)
I was going to cross-post over at Daily Kos, but I can't get the diary to publish.

Over there I am known as CalNM.

Thanks for commenting, everybody, and for your suggestions. I'm going to go to the VA soon, to bring him home, so will be off line, of course. Will check back here to answer replies as soon as possible.


What a FABULOUS essay (5.00 / 1)
Your experience wasn't fabulous, but thanks for tipping the rest of us to this drug.

Friend of mine's son just had a psychotic episode. Can't wait to find out if he'd taken Ambien recently.


psychotic episode? (0.00 / 0)
Thanks.... Hey Allison, please post back here if you find out about your friend's son and possible Ambien connection.

[ Parent ]


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