House Rules (Why Field Negroes Should Break Them)

The title, BTW, has to do with the name of another site.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future

I came late to this discussion, but am VERY happy to see it was promoted.

Great minds and all that rot...

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

I'd have rec'd it and commented if links to the back story had been provided--but without the backstory, sorry, it's just to rooted in innuendo and obscurity.

Can we at least have some links to the "conversations" that are at issue here? Without that , I don't see how any fruitful discussion can really emerge from this.

Maybe some better "hints" or "clues" for non-initiates?

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

Unfortunately, when I signed up for this site I used my real name and not my blogging handle. Sorry again for the omisson. In the future I will post as field negro.

Thanks for posting my essay on MLW, and exposing other views to your readers.

Peace.

 

Silence is never golden!

Welcome to MLW.

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

I am never offended by profanity ,(and, in fact, you may discover, should you choose to hang out here from time to time, profanity is actively encouraged at MLW -- those poor, beleaguered words whose impact is so strong, but who keep getting shunned because someone, somewhere, decided that htye were "bad" words -- fuck that motherfucking noise).

I am, however, offended by asterisks in PLACE of letters in profane words. I'm actually working on an essay about that, so I won't "blow my wad" (ugh -- hate that expression) here -- just wanted to tell you it was I who altered your essay, and to apologise in advance if you feel it a trespass.

I'm of a mind to BAN asterisks used as substitues for letters in profanity.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

Mr. Holland brought this upon himself by clearly antagonistic behavior which had nothing to do with his support for Hillary.  He openly flouted site rules by posting essentially the same diary three times (first instance, second instance, third instance).  But far more damning were his nasty and vicious anti-Gore diaries, which became his only reason for posting on dKos.  He wrote diaries such as Why Was Old Al Gore Such a Transparent Hypocrite? and Al Gore, What Happened in Graduate School?  In this memorable diary, he turned the unconscionable offense of one commented who referred to him as a "monkey" into a slam on Gore, basically implying that Gore should come onto the thread and apologize to him personally for his supporter's slight.  It was outragious and vicious claims like this which resulted in his banning.

I agree with the diarist that the blackosphere is unfairly neglected by the BBB, but Mr. Holland is far from the best example of this.  Better examples of brown bloggers who should be given more credit among those in power include Liza and Brownfemipower.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future

If it is about something else, then certainly demote it.  Thanks NP, Diane.

Personally, I think Wayne's missing the point of why Holland was banned at Daily Kos -- I don't think it was because he wasn't "white" enough, I think it's because he was vile about Gore and didn't observe the rules of the site.  But it's not "wrong" or "unfounded" -- it's a difference of opinion.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future

Lots of exquisitely written content--and humor in no short supply!

I haven't the time at the moment, but will be studying this blogroll more carefully as time permits. Very rich content source there. 

I suggest putting a link to the Field Negro website in the main body of the text--let folks follow the discussion and backstory and make their own determinations. 

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

Moulitsas was born in Chicago to a middle class, ethnically-Greek family from El Salvador (his uncle, an architect, had briefly been that country's education minister). The family moved back to El Salvador when Moulitsas was four and was on the right-wing side of the Cold War proxy fight there. But as that war's intrusions became unbearable-Moulitsas talks about stepping over dead bodies-the family returned to Chicago, where he grew up, in his own words, "a loudmouthed nerd."
This is from the Washinton Monthly not my famous intiution.

So Moultisas...according to this account.... is from a wealthy family that was on the side of  the military junta in El Salvador and whose uncle seems to have been part of the administration of a U.S. backed military junta that killed thousands of innocent people all ...again for absolutely nothing. To destroy communism...meaning workers who didn't have a lot of money and wanted the government to help them out.

Next question who were the dead bodies he says he stepped over? Were they from the right or the left. I read it was in a market place that he stepped over them.

Let's hear it for Francis Holland!

Stu Piddy....a free range human

Markos isnot responsible for his parentage, nor his uncle. And I'm fucking sick of seeing you repeat this little blurb of biography as if it is supposed to MEAN something to us.

Irrelevant and fucking annoying -- and posted so frequently it qualifies as SPAM.

ENough, already.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

For the record, I LIKED the article.....

Please, I would love to hear more on what we can do, but I am newer at the FP bumping thing, and don't want to step into the middle of an argument we weren't involved in.  Perhaps you could write another essay without naming names about how the left blogoshpere could embrace its black friends and allies better?

IMHO, many "progressive" white bloggers are no different than their conservative counterparts when it comes to understanding my community and the issues that we care about. 

Silence is never golden!

I suppose I am not your typical....well, let's just say I don't really fit nicely into a box. But I care passionately about my race, as well as issues that effect my community. And there are many more like minded thinkers out here. I just think that if the white "progressive "community made an effort to understand what black folks REALLY think, and the issues we REALLY care about it would enhance the political dynamic between the two groups. 

Silence is never golden!

Is this another "crazy" "radical" the liberal left has to hide in the attic, or the basement--as the case may be?

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

all the nasty shit said about cynthia mckinney over there, OTOH, was pretty openly and egregiously racist.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

You wonder sometimes - do people at DK pay ANY attention to the FAQ on trollrating?!  I'm sure most do, but sometimes one wonders.

i always thought that green stmping was a singularly bad idea from a strategic sense, as well as the wrong thing to do as decent human beings, but people like me clearly did not win that argument, at dKos and elsewhere. of course,  just for making that case i was subsequently yelled at for being a closet greenie naderite who was just lying about being a democrat.

people go crazy in congregations...

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

Here, with all the back-and-forth between the various Blogs already going on--those issues--that is, the power struggles and catfights between  the (predominately) white liberal blogs-- get in the way.

I, for one,  would like to see the President's Day for Dante piece posted here--and see if that isn't a better initial springboard for the broader discussion  you're aiming at. 

And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

I also wanted to second this:

if the white "progressive "community made an effort to understand what black folks REALLY think, and the issues we REALLY care about it would enhance the political dynamic between the two groups.

Let the church say Amen.


You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather

or the RSS reader for the Eschaton community
http://eschatonians....

that way you could just scan what black political bloggers were saying.

hmm, now i'm not so sure we aren't both saying the same thing. well, better to say it twice, i guess.

if white liberals and black liberals ever managed to get together and seriously hammer out enough trust and common ground to work together in solidarity, a lot of good stuff could get done. given the spatial segregation of our society, there is a real opportunity with the nowhereness of the blogosphere to start some conversations that simply don't happen, but desperately need to.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

Aside from Culture Kitchen, Negrophile, Blackamericaweb and a few others, I hadn't realized there were all these black bloggers out there.

As you well know, I get very tired of the fact that this blog relies basically on two (clearly identified and prominent) "black voices" to represent "the" black community: Shanikka and Weeps. To me, it's lonely and tiring. Exhausting even.

Maybe you're right: if white liberal progressives were to "eavesdrop" on the "blackosphere" and first get a sense of what black liberals are talking about amongst themselves, maybe there'd be less fussin' and fightin' when one or the other black (or negrophile ;-) blogger comes in here saying what s/he really thinks instead cloaking his truth in half-truths and "safe space"-discourse. 


And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

i don't look to weeps and shanikka to represent the entire black community, i just look to them for their experience, the same way i look to you, or cali, or tarheeldem, or durrati, or eugene (hey, he's the only guy i know from OC), as a way of broadening my own perspective.

i've always thought that the left would be smart to take white and black volunteers, mix 'em up, and have 'em walk precincts in different neighborhoods, just to get them used to crossing those damned lines and walls that so ruthlessly prevent most of us from ever finding common ground. the online thing is just an extention, i think.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

That was precisely the point I made here:

  Seems that every time anyone on the radical left dares to express criticism of the liberal left, the Democratic minions come out like the  Charge of the Light Brigade: "Hoorah for the Life of a Democrat! Can't we all just `get along' and join forces in removing the abomination that is BushCo from office? We're on the same side for Christ's sake!" Ousting the Bush regime is a `noble cause' is worth fighting for and it might even be worth casting off the mortal coil of differences in opinion, taste and approach between us to achieve that goal. But my concern is not just remedying the present crisis of criminality in government. My concern is and always has been: the future. Seven generations. From this perspective, I must seriously question whether we really are all "on the same side."

  I was talking to some friends of mine recently about these things, and I said:

  No wonder a lot of us (radicals) are wise enough to keep what we really think safely tucked beneath our hats or between our tails. By comparison to what we say `behind closed doors,' most of the shitstorms that ensue from daring to say aloud in liberal communities is polite--sanitized and "civil" by comparison to what so often goes on behind closed doors.

And I asked my friends, in a voice and venue loud enough for the liberal left to overhear the question:

  Why do we all just keep smiling and pretending "we're all the same inside," pretending we're all "on the same side," pretending those crazy motherfuckers are the "sane" ones, the "reasonable" ones, the "civilized" ones, and why do we keep coming home at night to vent ourselves blue in the face behind closed doors: "Jeezus H. Christ, man, and did you see how that whacked out motherfucking piece of shit went off on me when I suggested to that soulsucking, "shamanistic" Wannabee over there that she keep her filthy heart, hands and mind off the eagle feathers, the dream catchers, the cedar, the sweetgrass, the sage-not to mention the drums; and did you see that scumbag sellout, Uncle Tom's dicklickin' apple over there and the way he came runnin' behind her flat little cheezy-caked booty, sayin' `aw honey, that's one of them bad Injuns, dontcha know-don't listen to her, don't let her get you down-we ain't all like that, there's good Indians, too, and we like-in fact, we LOVE-your kind.'"
 

And the quote in bold is pretty much a verbatim rant that actually was spoken, and the person to whom I was speaking did not take offense: those words fell well within the bounds of "acceptable" discourse in my community: standard, garden-variety rant. 

By comparison, just about every word of critique I have expressed on the issue of race in the "whitosphere" has been utterly sanitized and "civil"--completely within bounds of "polite discourse"--at least as far as language is concerned: it's the thought processes behind the language that people find offensive.

I've said it a thousand times over: jeez, people, you should be glad we take the time and effort to "tame it down" for you.

As to Weeps and Shanikka being the "house representatives" of "the" Black voice: I've also said this a thousand times over--I get very tired of these discussions on race occurring in a vacuum of a pretty much all-white majority. And between white people who, for the most part (not exclusively) have very little experience with Black communities Note: with Black communities, as opposed to Black individuals. You come away with a very different perspective on things when you are immersed--as an absolute minority (white-skinned person) in a Black community.

So again, the onus is on Black folk to "cross the line", come over here, stick their asscheeks together, tone things down, package them in a way that is acceptable to white folk (or not!) and risk going through the exhausting same-old, same-old routine of having to explain, explain, explain....when  in reality, it's the white folk who've got some 'splainin to do, no?

As the Randall Robinson fiasco attests: no matter how you package some things, white folk just don't want to hear it.

(Robinson diary now only available in this sanitized version because I deleted the first diary in which  Randall Robinson was crucified and dragged through the muck, just for expressing the brutal truth of his experience as an "articulate," educated, indeed, upper middle class Black  in this racist environment we call "America", and in which I was similarly crucified and dragged through the muck simply for agreeing with him and having the audacity of presenting this man's work to a majority white community). 

The fact remains: what Robinson has expressed and what many Black bloggers express accurately reflects the experience of many Black men and women--in LIBERAL America, not just in conservative circles.  And every time these insights are brought to a majority white community, shit hits the fan: the "messenger" is shot down regardless of his or her skin color.

So yeah, maybe it would be a good idea for white folk to start "crossing those lines" and hanging out in the Blackosphere. They might get a better idea of how exhausting it can be to cross that line and attempt to weather the storm of being a minority voice in a predominately Black community. 


And she lived happily ever after in her Hobbithole in the Hood

There is a gigantic difference between people who were born and continue to live in cities and those who move to the city in later life or those who haven't lived in the cities.

Citiies are places where variety exists. Where tolerance isn't just expected it's a necessity. Cities especially port areas all over the world are the most liberal enviornments. Note that port areas of the U.S. and europe are heavilty commerced by foreigners. That's the reason for the liberality. Hamburg, Portland, New York New Orleans, Hong Kong. In America the Cities and Port areas especially are the places where Gore got most of his votes. It's the interior of the nation that voted for Bush. It's the interior of the nation that dominates the blogs...it seems apparent to me.

Stu Piddy....a free range human

It is easier to scan one RSS reader that jump from blog to blog. The blogs collectively have the power to attract readers greater than singly. At least, that was the experience in Virginia. Before the Lefty Blogs RSS reader my blog did well to attract 50 readers a day, now I have hundreds or readers.

It is just an easy way to promote a group of blogs.

I saw some of the end stage behavior of Francis and had no idea he was black until it was explicitly mentioned after he started calling others racist in what appeared to me as a non-sequitor ad-hominem  attack of his critics to distract from his own abusive behavior. 

He was imo just being a dick to his audience and race had nothing to do with it nor did it seem to have any thought through intention other than to piss off Gore supporters and Hillary haters(which it seemed to me he intended).  I guess if he saw those people as iherently oppressive to him then he might have a point but I'm pretty sure that is not being argued.

The demographics of race in blogging are surprising and troubling.  The reasons for it are not clear but I do not think the case for the salience of race being the reason has yet been made.

If he called people on Daily Kos racists it's probably because they were.

White people have to stop pretending that just because they are "liberal" (meaning they want to help blacks or someother bullshit and have coffee or lunch with "them") that they are not racists.

Yetimonk said: The demographics of race in blogging are surprising and troubling.  The reasons for it are not clear but I do not think the case for the salience of race being the reason has yet been made."

It's not clear to you. The reasons are very clear. It's history,

Stu Piddy....a free range human

You're right, we all have biases and stereotypes of many kinds but it takes environmental cues and mental heuristics to trigger them.  I have not yet seen anyone make a case that it happens regularly online.

I am not comfortable defending dkos and am really disheartened about the place.  I am merely saying what I observed in regards to francis. 

Are you trying to say it's always valid to call someone a racist?  Or is doing that gratuitously a racist act itself?

At every turn, when I took Francis' part I too was maligned and troll rated.

Yeah, I thought they were a bunch of racist creeps not to mention the evil as ususal that goes on over there. But, man, they had it in for Francis.

I've often wondered about Francis and how he is doing. Glad to know. :)

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

I ran the search back two years, so I think this will be fairly inclusive of most of his work.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

"Most people at DailyKos live for the approval of others, to win recommendations. I never told anyone, but I always just looked at my "impact", and the "high impact list almost always included the diaries I had written, based on the number of people who had visited my diaries to argue with me about my ideas and my ways of expressing those ideas. For a Black person, to be listened to everyday in a group that is 97.5% white is quite a victory, particularly when you are too far from those whites for them to gather a lynch party and hang you from a tree!

Most of the time when Black people post "reasonable" things about our experience at DK, they get, mostly ignored. I'd prefer to be reviled than ignored. My diaries were consistently on the "high impact diaries" list. http://www.dailykos....
I wrote about DailyKos' hypocrisy both because DailyKos pack mentality means that readers there are irresistably drawn to diaries that gore, skewer and roast their sacred cows. "How dare I?" Because their every comment (even their criticism) pushes my diary higher on the "high impact diary list", maybe even to the extent of being picked up by the New York Times. http://www.dailykos....
So my audience was far greater than those most immediate Kossacks who spend their time criticizing me."

I am white skinned. I agree with this. These blogs are all white suburban blogs that impose conformity of ideas. They don't want to hear what you have to say if you disagree or criticize people like that dumb ass nerd Markos whose family was associated with the military junta in El Salvador. Somebody ought to look that stuff up.

There is a poster here Xicano power whose diaries are about the best written, best researched on My Left Wing. Why doesn't he have front page status or whatever it is they call it? His stuff is about the best here. Nothing controversial either from the point of view of a white audience. He produces information. These blogs often get involved in talking about themselves instead of the war in Iraq for example.

I am disgusted with it. They are very conservative. And Daily Kos is a trojan horse that simply contains Republicans with a slightly democratic exterior.

Stu Piddy....a free range human

Where the train got off the tracks is alluded to by Wayne in his comment:

Besides, my issue and post wasn't really about Mr. Holland being banned. That was just the catalyst for me venting about the disconnect between many progressive black bloggers and white ones.

IMHO, many "progressive" white bloggers are no different than their conservative counterparts when it comes to understanding my community and the issues that we care about.

It seems to me that all this discussion about kos, etc. is avoiding the questions this post raises.

I hope some of these comments will not drive Wayne away from this site, because he has a unique and powerful voice that we need to listen to. 

Welcome to the site. 

Strangely, I am probably on my way out. But best wishes to you. 

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