I Can't Believe It's Not A Meritocracy!

I'm sure... (10.00 / 4)

...that I've got more bitching to do on this topic. And then maybe some constructive problem-solving discussion. But I've got a class right now. Will be back later.

My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

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by: Renee in Ohio @ Sun Mar 11, 2007 at 16:42:59 PM CDT

DKos: (9.50 / 2)

The Wal-Mart of blogs.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 01:16:34 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

as i've said (8.67 / 3)

as i've said elsewhere, markos is a brilliant blogger in the same way that tom sawyer was a brilliant fence painter.

jon stewart sez: "when i want news, i turn to cnn...and they turn...to skippy...the bush...kangaroo!"

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by: skippy @ Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 13:35:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I must say, though... (7.00 / 2)

That url-cum-nonlink is just annoyin. I can't copy it, so I'd have to hunt and peck digt by letter by digit to follow your map. I think I'll just google and scroll...

I sympathise with the "I don't want to link tothese douchebags anymore" philosophy; on the other hand, NO ONE else is going to follow that tack, so theloss of a few brave souls' links won't make a lick of difference to thewm, but it WILL greatly inconvenience anyone you're trying to enlighten every time you reference something they write but then refuse to provide a link, forcing your reader to hunt for it herself...

I know, I know. It hurts. don't you think I want to delete every single "Crossposted at DKos" link on this site?

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 01:23:22 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Cut the dude some slack for goodness sake! (0.00 / 0)

IMO He is just a grown up dweeb that got lucky.  Markos was in the right place at the right time with a useful information set.  Also, he is smart and lucky.  Life, unfortunately is more about things like luck than we would all like to admit.  To acknowledge the dominance of chance in our lives makes us even more aware of how out of control our lives really are even in our chosen jousting field.

Markos and Daily Kos are surfing a wave now and as it subsides only time will tell if he is agile enough to catch the next one.  Huffington Post for example is already ahead on Technorati. 

The Blogroll brouhaha did produce a positive result, the personalized blogrolls and some user featured sites etc. 

I first found MLW thru MSOC comments and sig on KOS  by the way.

alohapolitics.com

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by: Keone Michaels @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 02:28:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Google (0.00 / 0)

You can Google Atrios and the words "Your blog sucks" and the first thing that shows up should be that post. The second, I think, is a Kos diary pointing to that post.

With the alt text I used, I can get the url by right clicking on the image and selecting "properties". That gives me "element properties", and the alternate text is listed at the bottom. I just select all of that, copy, and paste. That's how it works for me on Windows--I don't know about other systems.

Google might be more straightforward. But actually creating the link in the essay would pretty much be shooting myself in the foot. When you're David going up against Goliath, you don't wanna handicap David. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. ;)

My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

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by: Renee in Ohio @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 05:10:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

i never go to either one now (10.50 / 2)

since blogroll amnesty day, i never go to dkos, atrios, jesus general or glenn greenwald, all of whom dumped skippy.

at least glenn greenwald had the decency to write me about it after i emailed  him.  but i still won't patronize any of them.

(if i find a link to skippy from dkos i'll go check it out...it's usually from a diary that has skippy on their personal blogroll, or else carnacki or jill linking to me in their story, god bless 'em).

i have found that i can garner all the news i need by coming here, to booman, to raw story and digby/firedoglake/agonist.  meme-orandum also is a good central site for news culling.  so who needs markos, and to a lesser extent, duncan?

i have pretty much got my anger out elsewhere (on this site and others).

let me say that it is with great pleasure that i found my traffic did not decrease in the least.  someone even clicks thru on atrios' archives, which still has the old blogroll.

there is little we can do about their egos.  what we can do, at this level, is to band together, as renee has started with the independent bloggers alliance.

we can support each other with links, and links in stories on main pages.  we can support each other with action alerts and real life meetings and actual journalism.  i suggest we try, individually, to get some big names in the political/journalism world to contribute blog posts to the iba, which can also be cross-posted at our individual blogs.  hey, firedoglake gets bigwigs to participate on their blog all the time, all it takes is a phone call to a campaign office and a conversation w/the media liason.

let's actually make the independent bloggers' alliance a network of information sharing, and start giving markos, and to a lesser extent, duncan, a run for their money.

let's also never forget to point out that we, unlike markos, allow discussions of (1) impeachment (2) women's issues (3) minorities' concerns (4) 9/11 questions.  let's point out that our alliance actually encourages diversity, as opposed to discourages, like markos, and to a lesser extent, duncan.

yes, i just like writing the words "and to a lesser extent, duncan."

jon stewart sez: "when i want news, i turn to cnn...and they turn...to skippy...the bush...kangaroo!"

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by: skippy @ Tue Mar 13, 2007 at 01:18:52 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Cut HIM some slack? (9.50 / 2)

Keone, you may not have noticed this, but Markos Moulitsas is the most powerful blogger in the world. It is HE who ought to be cutting slack for OTHER people. The onus is on HIM to be generous and unselfish and kind and helpful to people who are not  as strong as he is; does not any of this ring a bell as the most basic of liberal tenets?
Not only has he chosen not to HELP, he has actively, deliberately HURT smaller bloggers -- yes, myself included. And yes, I'm finally in touch with my anger about it -- as much as I am angry on behalf of all those other, even smaller bloggers who got fucked over by being unceremoniously removed from that blogroll, I am also angry on my own behalf.

And I think I have a right to that anger, as do many others who know the entire story here.

So, please, don't admonish me to cut HIM some slack. That's like telling a mouse to go easy on an elephant; regardless of the elephant's irrational fear of the mouse, the fact is, that fucker can still take one step and mash litle Reepicheep into the second layer of the earth's crust.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 03:24:36 AM CDT

He's going broke very rapidly (8.00 / 3)

And if you could all stop being angry at him, he'd be broke within hours. =)

At the end of the day, I was the one who made the money on all of this crap. Buy low, sell high and all of that. Be angry at me. =)

(At least it looks like he is... ;)

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 03:34:32 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well, I don't wish him ILL. (0.00 / 0)

I'm just MAD at him, that's all.

That's another thing that bothers me about people in Blogdom; why is it we're not allowed to get mad at each other without it being interpreted as some sort of lifelong vendetta?

I'm not out to get the guy. If anyone listens to that dumb Gibson interview, wherein I supposedly was going to be giving him "dirt" on Markos...

I gave exactly nothing. No dirt. Just my ranting and raving criticism.

And fury. Woman scorned and all that jazz. Blogroll-dumped -- whole new category of dumpage.

I've demoted this again -- don't know what I was thining, putting it on the front page -- stupid. I don't want a fucking blog war.

Here's the comment I posted with the promotion:

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 03:38:58 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm actually not out to get him either (9.00 / 2)

What a fucking waste of my time...sitting and writing all that code...only to have all the people who used it colorfully and entertainingly run off the site, and the site to tank miserably. I'm as pissed as you are, for many of the exact same reasons.

Of course, this is why I don't do volunteer work for any organization I don't control. The parachute comes in handy, especially when they start baying shit like, "I OWN THIS PLANE, and I COMMAND YOU TO LAND IT ON THAT MOUNTAIN!"

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 03:44:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

And PS (9.33 / 3)

I really can't imagine they had the gall...after years of criticizing Rovian branding tactics as "Soviet"...to call the de-linking of all the unfavored blogs "Blogroll Amnesty Day."

That was incredibly sadistic and pathological. As if they view this as some sort of joke. I didn't imagine they'd ever become overt like that about it, since they are so attuned to appearances and criticism, it being their entire profession.

They could have at least been cute about it...perhaps instead of "Night of the Long Knives" it could have been "Day of the nail clippers."

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 03:53:07 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Sadistic indeed (11.00 / 3)

Eons ago you an I had a conversation at Kos where one of us compared the troll cops to the Stanford Prison Experiment. The Sadism of the Clockwork Orange patrols at DK is what drives them, but they expect absolute passivity from their targets, if the target squirms expulsion results.

So much opportunity lost. Was that the point?

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by: Easternokie @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 18:40:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Anger and vendettas in blogdom (7.00 / 2)

That's another thing that bothers me about people in Blogdom; why is it we're not allowed to get mad at each other without it being interpreted as some sort of lifelong vendetta?

I don't really know, in toto, but I'll venture a ramble.

As Professor Kingsfield said, "We are always on the record."

I think the internet makes this truer than ever.  One could doubt the universality of Professor Kingsfield's assertion, but not on the internet.

We've all probably known persons about whom it was said, "He gets really angry, but when it's over, it's over."  This can become impossible on the internet, and on a blog in particular, because the things you write are never over.  Even when you eliminate them at a site, it is always possible that they live in one of those internet wayback sites.

In fact, that is how i got some of Joe Wilson's material, including a chat session, that had been posted on his page on John Kerry's site.  (Wilson was unceremoniously dumped from Kerry's campaign, and all traces removed from Kerry's site about the time the SSCI repport was published in August 2004.)

This was brought home to me when I was dis cussing a conversation that had taken place on a defunct site with one of the three people involved about 2 years after it had taken place.  We had differeing memories of the exact content.  He found the whole thing in about 10 minutes using google, while i had found the site and was trying to find it from brute force.

Asa in the example above, one dan find thedse things with keywords.  To me, one who treats blogs and such as face to face conversations that will be lost to anything buyt memory, this is a scary thing.

And I think this encourages vendetta-sizing anger, because anyone who reacts can always check bace=k to read it several times.

Onwe night another musician and I brpoke into the restaurant we were working at after hours, played all night, and drank a lot of the bar.  When the owner came in to clean up the next day, he let us have it.  When we came in to work that night, it was if it had never happened.  It was between us, all had been said, it was over.  Had this taken place in blogdom, it would have been kept alive all day long by other readers who would have agreed with all the foul language he hurled at us.  Even if he had never issued another comment, it would have had the character of a vendetta.

It is one of the things that gives me the most difficulty in this written form.  For instance, it just floored me a couple of days ago when I made that joke (Grate minds rasp together--[should have been 'alike']), gottlieb, who may be on a vendetta, 3 rated it, indicating that he disagreed--with a joke! (You got it.)

As you discovered, in this realm, even more than in face to face conversation, it seems, and perhaps paradoxically, people's expectations of what you are going to write often replace an actual reading of what you do write.

So, do you think that there is or ever will be the equivalent of an understanding in blogdom that certain persons express their anger fully, even with swearwords and ALL CAPS, but that when they are done, it is over, and all is as it was?

It is probably a question for the sociology of blogging.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.

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by: Madscientist @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 05:59:23 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

peeder, losing money? (0.00 / 0)

I'm not sure about that.

He hasn't been selling ads, but the costs to keep that site up can't be very high.

Even his secondary prices keep the site going.

The unknown for me is how he pays the "fellows"... if those are gift with no promise of continuation, then he's able to more than break even and pay the rent to the colocation site, or however he's serving.

-pyrrho-

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by: pyrrho @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 18:44:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Think about the amount of staff (6.00 / 1)

Moulitsas has got over a dozen machines humming away in the data center, plus bandwidth. Say minimum $2,500/month as it's a value-added host, not just co-lo. Can't cut that because it's the worst situation: a (relative) few heavy users demanding performance. And technological development isn't directed at performance to relieve that: they picked Ruby on Rails and a "Second System" megaproject (frustrated programmers do these once in their career, as Brooks noted decades ago...throwing in everything they ever dreamt of and the kitchen sink...I call it "taking a big shit"...ends up looking like one...).

He's got 3 technical staff above what the datacenter provides and is angling to bring it to 5-6. He's got what, 5 other "fellows" that are full-time staff via the "prize" novelty. Some of these various staffers are contractors and free of benefits and payroll taxes, but at least one is an employee from what has been announced. Most left "good jobs" to join and have families.

Gotta be a burn rate of something like $50k/month, ignoring outlays for book promotions and tours etc. Then he's got his travel expenses, 2.5 other mouths to feed, a mortgage to pay...

And that would all be fine if he was selling ads...his two premium slots (if sold at the public price) would cover all of that, leaving the rest as profit.

That was the miscalculation. The ads stopped. The readership left. The relevancy receded.

It was a gamble. I'm sure he still thinks he's got a shot, that this is seasonal fluctuation. And that finishes him.

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 19:28:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I played with Ruby and Rails for a few months (4.00 / 1)

I loved it, but don't like Ruby ('end' is not a proper token)... also, I noticed Ruby does not have good performance yet, comparing it to python it fares poorly, and sure enough, the pythonic versions of rails are now on the scene and easily up to speed with rails, with the advantage of a better language (imo, though Ruby is lovely in many ways) with a much more optimized virtual machine.  Except for Java, I think python might be the quickest engine in the west, and it plays well with other (fek off, java!).

That development effort, if it's really going, yes, will draw money like a sinkhole.  The best Brookesism is the method of getting a pregnancy over quicker... just put two women on it!

If the fellows were on a commitment basis, he's screwed.  If the dev staff is on board, he's in trouble.  If he cares about fucking over Hunter, he's screwed.  But my guess is kos knows how to cut weight loose, and that he can coast if he doesn't wait too long.

I think kos doesn't realize where that premium ad money really comes from, nor that many of his "new allies in washington" have not forgotten their vested interest limiting his power... and slowing ad money is an easy way to put pressure on him.

What you say makes sense, I just wonder how committed kos really has made himself, e.g. this "prizes" idea seems designed to back out of all the dreams and grand plans, obligations and promises.

If he's done that all around, dkos can feed him and his family...  we'll see.

-pyrrho-

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by: pyrrho @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 20:43:43 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Of course I'm a Java guy (0.00 / 0)

and I recommended it for performance reasons, so don't be anti-Java wit me!

It's odd to even quote Brooks, I haven't had reason to think about that book (The Mythical Man-month, to those curious) in 10 years or so. This is because in the industry those lessons are completely ingrained assumptions. It's weird to have to go all the way back to first principles, but there it is.

Given the fuss over the Blogroll Amnesty, when he realizes that a) he can't pay for the software and b) the books are all going to stiff, the day he ends his fellows program could be the very worst of all. Then he'll have the same "Et tu, Brute" he just gave his bother-in-arms, Armando. I wonder if he'll have any friends left other than Jerome.

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 23:22:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I suspect that Markos has money sources other than ads... (4.00 / 1)

...suspect, but can't prove.

Markos flies into a rage whenever anybody brings up the issue of "payola".

Markos doesn't disclose his financial contributions (if any) from non-advertising sources.  With good reason, I think.

I don't think Markos NEEDS ad revenue to keep DailyKos going.

When Markos bought his house, I had a realtor friend crunch the numbers, calculating what it costs to buy in Bay Area and using ONLY ad revenues and book sales as his sources of income.  My realtor friend generously calculated that Kos was taking in the maximum possible amount of ad revenue EVERY month, which I don't think is the case.

Even in the best-case scenario, the numbers just didn't add up.  Markos couldn't afford the house he has.

But he did buy it.  So either my realtor friend (who sells $5-$7 million worth of residential real estate per year, every year for the past 15 years) is incompetent, or Markos has additional sources of revenue not available for calculation.

I think we'll find out when and if Congress ever decides to really investigate the issue of payola in the blogs.  I'm not holding my breath.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 11:46:39 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Obsess much? (2.33 / 3)

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 11:54:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

My time is my business (5.50 / 2)

Your time is your business.  You should know that already, but just thought I'd remind you in case your memory is bad.

I have a new-fangled gadget called an "electronic calculator" and Markos publishes his ad rates.  I calculated how many ad spots he sells multiplied by his advertised rates.  Took me about 2 minutes, and math is not my strong subject.

My realtor friend took about 10 minutes to crunch the numbers to which I have referred.

So, 12 minutes and I had my answer, approximate as it is.  As with most things, the calculation only confirmed my intuition:  something ain't right.

Actually, I suspect, and have for a long time, that Kos is one of the bloggers taking payola from somebody (not necessary the Democratic Party, but somebody), ala Armstrong Williams.  If you mean "obsess" you mean I'm curious as to whether or not the so-called "progressive" blogosphere is tainted by under-the-table money, then call me Ahab.

However, the 12 minutes I spent figuring out that Markos' income didn't match with his lifestyle is just that--a quickie calculation that could only be pursued by somebody with both the power and just cause to subpoena his financial records.

I think it's coming, that there will be a Congressional investigation of blogdom in general.  It's only a matter of time, really.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 12:35:56 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Just for kicks (2.50 / 2)

I don't know Markos' history, but seeing that the man is 35 or so years sold and Dkos is about 4-5 years old, I would assume that he had a job (or 2 or 3 or 4) prior to setting up Dkos and even likely was working and being paid outside of it for the first year or two of the site's existence.

On top of that, he is married to a woman whom I presume to have family (and my god, could it be possible that she has/had a job as well?)in addition to having family of his own.

Each and every one of these sources which I have pulled right off the top of my head could have easily been involved in Markos having enough money in addition to his Dkos ad revenue to buy his home.

Just to be clear here, I'm not defending Markos or his source of income (why would I?), but rather your specious and dare I say slanderous quasi-claims as to his financial status.

When did you stop beating your wife BC?

Or have you stopped?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 12:55:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Do some research... (7.00 / 1)

...as I have, and then get back to me.

It's clear you don't know what you're talking about.  (Not that it ever stopped you before.)  The fact that you don't know Kos' employment history, nor the fact that his wife was the sole financial support of the family at the time he started DailyKos, proves that you are woefully uninformed.  I rather suspect that in your case, you are deliberately uninformed.

I usually don't bother trying to reason with a Kos diehard loyalist (which you appear to be), as it's invariably a waste of time.  Therefore, the following paragraphs are directed not at you, but at others who are amenable to reason.

"Quasi-slanderous"?  Speculations about someone's finances--especially someone who is, in every legal sense of the word, a public figure--is not slanderous.

First, it's "libel" if it's in print.  "Slander" is communicated orally.

Second, there is no "quasi" libel or slander.  It either is, or it isn't.  You can't be "quasi" libelous any more than you can be "quasi" pregnant.

Third, if Kos doesn't like it, he can damn well sue me.  During the discovery process in a libel lawsuit (which I would win), I'd have ample opportunity to subpoena his business and personal financial records.  I recall Kos threatening to sue the Washington Monthly over an article Benjamin Wallace-Wells published, "Kos Call", which also questioned his finances. 

Said lawsuit never materialized.  Hmm.  Kos has also threatened lawsuits against other publications, such as the Washington Post, who have questioned his finances.  Again, said lawsuits never materialize, so maybe he was just blowing steam in his typical fashion.  Or maybe the lawyer in him knows damned well that not only would he lose a libel suit under American law, but that the discovery process might be somewhat disadvantageous to his interests.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 13:51:58 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Did (2.00 / 2)

you do all that research in 12 minutes too?

Again: Obsess much?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 13:54:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Snark, the first and last refuge... (0.00 / 0)

...of the factually challenged.

You offer no facts of your own, just snide remarks that bounce off my (by now) rather thick hide.

I will repeat, not for you but for others who do not yet have the facts and who have open minds:  I believe that there is evidence that the blogosphere is tainted with under-the-table money, ala Armstrong Williams.  It's called "pay for play" and I think it happens on certain blogs.

There are certain people (see above) who desperately don't want any discussion of this.  The discussion has been shut down on many blogs by Kos' online Ton Ton Macoutes or by initimidated blog owners.  Thankfully, MSOC seems no more afraid of the Wrath of Kos and his flying monkeys than I am.

I always ask myself:  why the Cheneyeseque secrecy surrounding the finances of the blogs?  If they want to dispel all suspicion, why not just disclose all of their financial contributions in a CPA-certified audit to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they aren't taking payoffs?

Kos says he's not a paid campaign consultant.  I believe him, because if he were, that money would have be disclosed in the candidates' financial statements, and he'd eventually be caught in the lie.

If--notice I said "if"--he is receiving income from an undisclosed source, it's definitely off the books and is highly unethical, if not blatantly illegal.  That'd be about par for the course in American politics, I think.  Every time I think things can't get any slimier, I'm proved wrong.


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:03:34 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Conspiracy (0.00 / 0)

the first and last refuge of those in possession of some of the facts and an agenda.

What facts do you have that Markos is receiving money from an unnamed source or sources to provide his living?

You don't have facts, you have speculation.

"If" you continue to beat your wife, you are a wife beater.

Prove to me you're not.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:25:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Damn, forgot the important bit (0.00 / 0)

At the time my realtor friend did her calculations, Markos was on record saying he cleared approximately $100,000 (net income) from DailyKos, book sales, etcetera, annually.

My friend's first reaction?  "No way he qualified for that house in that neighborhood on $100,000."

What if he had a substantial down payment?  Her response, "He'd have to have a $150,000 down and squeaky clean credit."


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 12:24:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Markos has staff, (0.00 / 0)

fellows, a new house in Berkeley, not to mention a super expensive piano, then there is a new baby Kos on the way.

His must be a very stressed world these days. It really would suck to be him now. Particularly since must know he could have had it all, but blew it.

Pride goeth before the fall.

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by: Easternokie @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 19:40:06 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I have had some periods of great success (0.00 / 0)

one never feels it's going to go away. Even when one learns that it's fleeting, no, it feels like you just do what you did that last time and... what?  what happened?!

I fully endorse extravagant expenditures, even from a working class family, my family has had proud craftsman honored to be able to make things of extravagant quality... that's all good in my book.  HOWEVER, to spend money like that in a very young business is foolhardy, akin to the way rock bands spend the money off their first hit album.  Even if not foolhardy, it shows visions of a long gravy train illuminating markos' way.

yes, an opportunity lost but then, we're still ahead on the night.

cheers.

-pyrrho-

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by: pyrrho @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 20:46:26 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I think the funniest bit of karma will be (11.00 / 1)

the day when he feels compelled to send his resume as a political writer, to....ha ha ha haaaaaaa

THE NEW REPUBLIC!!!

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by: peeder @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 23:05:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Perhaps I used the wrong turn of phrase ... (6.50 / 2)

"Cut him some slack" was not the best choice of words and you are right, I am not a player in this particular story so am unaware of the specifics.  Interstingly the whole show has pretty much played out in public on the "Blogostage."

I watched the drama from the sidelines and from what I have observed I think Markos played it wrong with you as I told him so a few weeks ago. 

I figure that either he is an American businessman or not?  At the least he could have made more of an effort to harvest and co-opt your energy (the American business model) instead of acting like he has done. 

His sin was not in my opinion, "being selfish and ungenerous" rather missing the opportunity to develop and participate in your success.  He gave away an opportunity.  Unforgivable transgression for an American businessman.

 

alohapolitics.com

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by: Keone Michaels @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 12:57:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Daily Kos: A retrospective from 2004 (5.50 / 2)

These are excerpts from a ten page New York Times piece on a blogger's convention. The author spent lots of "face time" with Markos.  I got a little insight about the way Markos thinks. Wonder how it compares to how he thinks now? Has success spoiled Markos Moulitsas?

Certainly according to his comments to Matthew Klam, Markos did not expect the monster DKos would become, in fact he seemed overwhelmed by it all. That was then.

As one not privvy to the back-story of Moulitsas' run up to Daily Kos, I found this article more than revealing.

Fear and Laptops on the Campaign Trail

By MATTHEW KLAM

Published: September 26, 2004

These are excerpts from a ten page New York Times piece on bloggers from 2004.  I got a little insight about the way Markos thinks. Wonder how it compares to how he thinks now? Has success spoiled Markos Moulitsas?

Certainly according to his comments to Matthew Klam, Markos did not expect the monster DKos would become, in fact he seemed overwhelmed by it all. That was then.

As one not privvy to the back-story of Moulitsas' run up to Daily Kos, I found this article more than revealing.

(snip)

Everyone was sitting, staring at their laptops, at bridge tables or completely sacked out on couches. Markos Moulitsas, who runs the blog Daily Kos, at dailykos.com, was slouched in the corner of one squashed-down couch in shorts and a T-shirt, his computer on his lap, one of the keys snapped off his keyboard. He's a small guy with short brown hair who could pass for 15.

Duncan Black of the blog Eschaton, who goes by the name Atrios, sat at the other end of the couch, staring out the window. On the table set up behind them, Jerome Armstrong of MyDD worked sweatily. Jesse and Ezra, whose blog is called Pandagon, were lying with two cute women in tank tops -- Ezra's girlfriend Kate and Zoe of Gadflyer -- on futon beds that had been placed on the tiny stage of the performance space.

A few blocks down Eighth Avenue, thousands of journalists with salaries and health benefits waited for the next speech and the next press release from the Republican campaign. Here in the Tank, Jesse and Ezra sat resting on the futon with some dumplings. Moulitsas was crashing on a friend's floor for the week. Atrios had just quit his job as an economics professor, and Armstrong could fondly look back on stints in his 20's as a traveling Deadhead, a Peace Corps volunteer and a Buddhist monastery dweller.

Like almost everyone in the Tank, Moulitsas started blogging to blow off steam. He seemed as surprised as anyone to find himself on the verge of respectability.

(snip)

On April Fools' Day, Moulitsas really blew it. In a swaggering reaction to a Daily Kos reader who wondered in the comment section whether the four American civilian contractors strung up in Falluja deserved the same respect as American soldiers, he wrote, ''I feel nothing over the death of mercenaries,'' and then added, ''Screw them.''

Within hours, he became the focus of an international letter-writing campaign to drive away all of his advertisers. It worked, too. House candidates, Senate candidates, they all pulled their ads. But in a matter of weeks brand-new ads came in to fill the void. ''It was a blip!'' Moulitsas told me later, a little triumphantly. He had nearly destroyed himself, but not quite.

In the aftermath of what was maybe the worst week of Moulitsas's life, friends asked him if he might not consider choosing between his two roles, as a clearinghouse for activism and an outlet for information.

But the site continued to grow, fund-raising chugged along for his candidates, and he wanted me to know that his survival was a big finger in the eye of anyone who said a blogger couldn't be two things at once.

(snip)

In Boston, I went with Moulitsas to a really swanky party given in honor of the bloggers at a Middle Eastern restaurant on the Charles River. At 2 a.m., as people were filing out to leave, a discussion that had started online spilled onto the middle of the floor.

For the last few weeks, Moulitsas had been conversing on at least two different blogs with Jim Bonham, the executive director of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. The D.C.C.C. is the arm of the Democratic Party that provides money, expert advice and technical support to candidates in close House races, and Moulitsas had been complaining that the group was abandoning some viable candidates, especially liberal ones, and leaving them to ''flail around.''

Moulitsas became especially worked up about a Congressional candidate in Pennsylvania named Ginny Schrader. Her race against an incumbent Republican looked unwinnable, until her opponent suddenly dropped out of the race.

Moulitsas immediately started soliciting donations for Schrader on Daily Kos, and within a couple of days he had raised $40,000 for her campaign, which the day before had had $7,000 in the bank.

The D.C.C.C. was slower to react, and Moulitsas felt outraged and free to take a whack or two at them.

So when Moulitsas and Bonham met by the door at the party, they started screaming at each other. People gathered around to watch, blocking the crowd attempting to leave. Jim Bonham is taller and stouter than Moulitsas, but Jerome Armstrong of MyDD stood behind Moulitsas, kind of grinning and shaking his head. Stirling Newberry, a blogger buddy of Moulitsas's from the Draft Clark movement, tried to act as peacemaker, but it didn't work. Nicco Mele, the official liaison between the D.C.C.C. and the blogosphere, just stood back, horrified.

When I reached the blogger section the next day, Moulitsas was still pumped up. ''Did you see my epic battle?'' he yelled over to me. Armstrong turned around, grinning his head off. ''The D.C.C.C. has never been challenged,'' Moulitsas said when I got over to his seat. ''It was a shot across the bow.'' Then he re-enacted the fight. ''You should've heard him yelling: 'So you can raise $20,000, but I can raise $2 million! You have to understand your role in this!'''

Armstrong said, ''I'd have hit him if he said that to me.''

Moulitsas said: ''I told him: 'Don't yell at me. The rules are changing. You gotta adapt. You gotta wake up and realize your role.''' (I talked to Bonham later, and he said he didn't get why Moulitsas thought the D.C.C.C. was slighting bloggers. After all, Bonham said, the D.C.C.C. had paid for the very top-drawer blogger bash where the fight broke out.)

For Moulitsas and for a lot of other people new to politics in 2004 -- amateurs who liked the thrill ride Dean had taken them on -- the idea that the rules had changed seemed entirely obvious. What was important to these new activists, he told me, was winning -- winning the presidency, winning back the Senate, winning as many Congressional seats as possible.

Soon after we met, Moulitsas tried to convince me how important it was for the old guard to start seeing politics through the eyes of the bloggers. That meant rapid response, he said, smart use of technology, constant two-way communication with the voters and grass-roots fund-raising.

He told me the story of a flash advertisement that the D.N.C. had posted on its Web site. Moulitsas hated it. ''It was horrible, the worst thing I'd ever seen,'' he said. ''So I blogged a post saying, 'That's the biggest piece of garbage I've ever seen in my whole entire life''' (although he used stronger language than that). ''What the hell were they thinking?'' he asked. ''I was embarrassed to be a Democrat.

So then I get phone calls and e-mails, 'Well, why didn't you talk to us?' I'm like: 'What's there to talk about? The thing's a piece of garbage.' And then they say: 'It was done by a volunteer. If you attack them, then volunteers aren't going to want to do stuff like that.'

I'm like: 'Good! 'Cause it's a piece of garbage.' I'm like, Here's the way it goes. O.K., from now on, keep this in mind: whenever you put up anything on this site, think, How are the blogs going to react?''

He was smiling, but all the veins were pulsing in his neck. ''You can pout all you want,'' he said, ''but I'm not here to make friends with you guys and go to your little cocktail parties. And that piece of garbage is going to lose us votes.''

(snip)

Although the D.C.C.C. raises a lot more money for Congressional candidates than Moulitsas does, candidates have caught on to the fact that Moulitsas's help can be invaluable. While we were sitting up there in the blogger nosebleed section, his phone rang. It was Samara Barend, a young community activist running for Congress in upstate New York. When Moulitsas hung up, he told me she was calling ''either to get my endorsement or to get me to write about the race.''

Then we headed to the Westin to meet another Congressional candidate hoping for some of the same attention from Daily Kos: Diane Farrell, a selectwoman from Westport, Conn.

We sat down in the hotel's ornate lobby, where delegates and journalists were checking e-mail and chatting. After some friendly introductions, Farrell made her pitch.

''The problem is that we don't have a TV station,'' she said. ''We have three daily papers, but direct mail will probably be our biggest expense. Radio costs too much.''

Moulitsas said, ''Are you doing the heavy ground game?''

''Oh, most definitely.''

Moulitsas wondered if the remnants of the Dean movement could help out. ''Are there any Dean organizations around you?'' he asked.

''Bean?''

Moulitsas cleared his throat. ''Dean.''

''Oh, yes,'' she said.

Later, Moulitsas decided to add Barend -- but not Farrell -- to the short list of candidates he deemed most worth backing and raised more than $10,000 for her campaign.

(snip)

For Moulitsas, the bigger problem these days is his own success. When we met up again at the Republican convention, we walked around ground zero, and he told me about his rising page views.

''I was losing sleep over how I'd survive the traffic,'' he said. His daily readership had surpassed 350,000, and by most counts he had become the most-read political blogger in the country.

He told me he had hired a full-time programmer to take over the technical work of running his site.

''I never intended to be here,'' he said.

''Nothing foreshadowed the attention Daily Kos is getting.''

Moulitsas said that people had been coming in from Brooklyn and other places just to shake his hand, because they knew he would be at the Tank. ''It's weird,'' he said. ''It makes me uncomfortable. People who achieve a certain amount of celebrity plan it. They expect that public attention will be part of the package.''

Away from the Tank now, he could relax for a moment and reflect. ''I'm really self-conscious of how the blogger community perceives me,'' he said.

''I feel guilty that I don't link to more bloggers, I feel guilty that I'm more successful than other bloggers. I feel guilty that I make as much money as I do now, that I get more traffic. Rather than enjoy it, sometimes I feel really guilty about it. It's silly.''

Hmmmm...guess he's over that now!

Featured in the article too, is fascinating information on others of the BBBs to include:

Duncan Black of the blog Eschaton

Jerome Armstrong of MyDD

Jesse and Ezra Pandagon

Mickey Kaus Slate

Ana Marie Cox Wonkette

Joshua Micah Marshall Talking Points Memo

Andrew Sullivan and Glenn Reynolds Instapundit

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

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by: Cheryl @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 10:08:38 AM CDT

Mutual linking (9.00 / 1)

FYI, I've got a post about mutual linking up here

http://www.boomantri...
(It's at the orange place too.)

My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

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by: Renee in Ohio @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 12:57:17 PM CDT

For what it's worth (7.00 / 2)

My Left Wing is on my individual DKos blogroll and I link to it from my sig. It's a gesture I know, but I don't know if it would do any good if several thousands of us did the same.

http://www.dailykos....

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by: Widget @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 17:54:03 PM CDT

Atrios, the internet, and ghettos (10.00 / 1)

I don't normally go through the trouble of registering to comment because I am an infrequent commenter, but your post got me thinking about something I read a few months back. I think it would be worthwhile for you to read it too.

Mark Cuban wrote it at his BlogMaverick site.

Here is the url

http://tinyurl.com/t...

I'm not trying to take anybody's side here, though I read Atrios frequently, I almost never enter his comments. I do often follow the links in his post.

I actually followed the link to the epluribusmedia site, but didn't want to go through the registration process there when I did because I had to go.

His second link sent me here.

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by: Lindsey @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 20:00:16 PM CDT

Renee ... (9.00 / 1)

I am proud to be part of your Independent Bloggers Alliance. And this diary is Exhibit A of why. You rock!

Intrepid Liberal Journal

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by: Intrepid Liberal Journal @ Mon Mar 12, 2007 at 23:04:08 PM CDT

Thank you (0.00 / 0)

I just now saw this comment.

I pretty much spent all the focus I've got for writing today in my essay "Who Gets to Determine Our 'Value?'" So, just a quick thank you to say I saw your comment and really appreciate it.

My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

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by: Renee in Ohio @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:55:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I Know How It Is ... (0.00 / 0)

when you get consumed by something you just wrote. I've been plenty delinquent myself responding to comments at times. Especially when you crosspost at different sites. Hard to keep track sometimes.

Intrepid Liberal Journal

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by: Intrepid Liberal Journal @ Thu Mar 15, 2007 at 16:30:16 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Jake & Blogging Curmudge (0.00 / 0)

Start a new thread, please, your margin race is killing me.

Jake -- his wife is a full time student now, and about to have a baby.

As for the rest, I have no information, but find BCs calculations very interesting.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:02:40 PM CDT

Is this your version of a "margin call"? (0.00 / 0)

Not to worry, I've said all I care to say on the topic at this time. 

For the record, the IRS and various levels of the police (local, state, federal) do such rough calculations of estimated living expenses v. known/estimated income when they suspect Something Ain't Adding Up.  You may recall that it was the IRS, not the FBI, who sent Al Capone to prison, and that many current mafia chiefs are behind bars on the same charge (income tax evasion).

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:12:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

So (1.00 / 1)

now you are comparing Markos to the mob?

You are hysterical. 

Literally.

Why don't you call the IRS yourself and give them a hot tip on Mr. Moulsitas?

Or have you already?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 14:18:11 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you want to be the new Armando... (0.00 / 0)

...you really need to work on your ripostes.

We seem to have a reading skills deficit here.  Did I not point out that it's through financial comparisons that mobsters, et al, are caught.  Was there a direct comparison with Mr. Kos, or was it merely the most obvious example of how such a tool is used?

I forgot, Kos' flying monkeys have very poor reasoning AND reading skills.  The logic/linguistic part of the brain appears to be switched off, but that reptilian bit in the back overcompensates by being switched on in "full attack mode" any time anybody whispers criticism of Mr. Moulitsas.

For those of you who are wondering:  Yes, I used to work for the IRS (many years ago) in enforcement.  No, I did not enjoy it.  Yes, I was reasonably good at it.  (What always bothered me about my job with the IRS was that we relentlessly pursued the little fish, but often the bigger fish, who had the money to drag out matters with highly-paid lawyers, often escaped with "payment agreements" in which they paid but a small fraction of what they owed the treasury.)  Steal a little, get your property seized and/or go to jail; steal a lot, and you'd get rewarded.  It still goes on today, except it's gotten far worse....

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 15:53:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Did (4.00 / 2)

you get fired from the IRS for beating your wife?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 16:00:00 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Do... (9.00 / 1)

...I smell desperation?

When you don't have any facts, go straight to the ad hominem.

It's Kos Flying Monkey Tactic #1.  Also Kos Flying Monkey Tactic #2-#105, actually.

What's next?  Pictures of cute ponies?  Recipes?


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

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by: The BloggingCurmudgeon @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 16:07:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Again (1.00 / 1)

what facts exactly do you have regarding Markos Mouslitas' sources of income, assets, debt ratio, etc..?

All I've heard is innuendo, theories, a last minute attempt at citing yourself as some sort of expert, a ton of what can only be personal animosity, a few subject changing insults about myself and Armando, trained monkeys, etal..and the sly "who me?" slur of saying these "methods" which are causing you to suspect Kos of something are commonly used to take down organized crime figures.

Your whole argument is built on sand.

So again, let me ask you exactly how long have you been beating your wife, and why did losing your job not teach you that it was wrong?

See how easy it is to besmirch?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

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by: Jake's Guilt @ Wed Mar 14, 2007 at 16:13:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]