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My Initial Response to Being Banned By Markos Moulitsas from Daily Kos

by: Maryscott O'Connor

Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 16:19:10 PM PDT





Originally posted at Daily Kos




I posted this under Adam's name in the comments of the diary Markos posted wherein he held up my severed blog-head for the screaming mob to see (Forgive me for not linking to it), having banned me over a bogus charge of copyright infringement -- bogus because I did not infringe anyone's copyright. Of course, he has banned me and given me no chance to defend myself publicly over there. Classy, that.


I suppose Markos will likely ban Adam, too, now, hmm? Pity.



Maryscott O'Connor :: My Initial Response to Being Banned By Markos Moulitsas from Daily Kos


Self-appointed arbiters of taste, propriety, truth, justice and the American Way, are you?


I have changed in the 3 years I've been blogging here. I have become more informed than anyone I have ever known or know now. Which has, in turn, made me angrier than ever before. And the truth of the matter is, the fact that I am so well informed has apparently made me increasingly ill-suited to a site like this, where the signal-to-noise ratio has obviously hit rock bottom levels.


I cannot abide bullshit. Dishonesty, lies, mendacity and liars themselves -- in any circumstance or setting -- infuriate me.


I believe that passivity, cowardice, corruption, collusion, intimidation, obfuscatory propaganda, uninformed, parroted speech and malfunctioning critical thinking skills combine in political parties, individuals with great power and very large groups of involved but misinformed and ignorant constituencies to create the very system we suffer today. A system that is fatally flawed, if achieving anything remotely resembling democracy is actually its aim. (But of course, for the people in power, it most certainly is not the aim, for democracy in action would most assuredly kick their sorry asses out of power.)


I am not saying that the fatal flaws of the American political system in any way resemble the fatal flaws of Daily Kos. I am, however, saying that they share common symptoms of their essential dishonesty.


Just as we are taught from infancy that our political system is the best, the most fair, the most democratic in the world and that anyone can grow up to be President, when in fact none of these things are true and the system is not a failure, for it is even designed to be what we are taught it is supposed to be...


So most of us came to Daily Kos because somewhere, sometime, we heard it described as a "liberal blog" or, if we heard about it on Fox, a "far left" blog. Of course, once we got here, we were quickly disabused, if quietly and mildly, of that notion, and informed that this was a "Democratic blog," whose main purpose was to "promote progressive values and get Democrats elected." Only, sometime when you weren't paying attention, sort of like when they slip in a bunch of amendments at the last minute to a bill that's going up for a vote at 3am, it became strictly a "Democratic blog, whose purpose is to elect Democrats."


A lot of people would rightly refer to the American political system's image as taught to American citizens compared to that system as it exists in temporal terms as a classic case of "bait and switch," if on a very sophisticated and complex scale.


Many might say the same about their experience as long-term members of Daily Kos. Especially if they joined its ranks around the time its proprietor made the move to the Scoop software system. Things were very different back in the days nearing the end of the 2004 democratic primary campaign.


People like me were considered the "enforcers" of the "No Negativity/SYFPH" mandate per the Kerry campaign. I've since repented, but unfortunately my legacy appears to be even more "diary police" who become the self-appointed hall monitors and nannies, greedily scouring the site for incidents of rule breaking.


Where this site used to be bursting at the seams with lively conversations, heated debate and passionate discourse, now if you see any diary discussion with over 100 comments, it's a safe bet that a goodly percentage of those comments are people bickering at each other over "rules" infractions, or dragging lame, tired rivalries with them from god knows when.


Worse, there seems to have come into the atmosphere a tacit understanding that what was supposed to be a temporary tactic in the 2004 campaign, to form a barricade around Kerry and attempt to NOT turn into the perennial circular firing squad, is now the general rule of thumb, to be applied to all but a few unofficially sanctioned free bash zone Democrats. But even bashing a universally reviled Democrat must be undertaken with care, for if one strays too far into criticising her actual policies and the politics behind his dislike, he will find himself embroiled in a flame war quicker than one can say, "Don't get all socialist on my ass."


Bait and switch, they call it. Daily Kos and the Democratic Party suit each other. But at one time, Daily Kos fought to CHANGE the Democratic Party -- not just infiltrate it. Seems the old "I'm going to affect change from the inside" pledge has once again been drowned out by the shorter, snappier, "Power corrupts."


That's the best I can do today, folks. I have more to say, but I'm exhausted.


Tags: , , , , , , , , (All Tags)
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and next year, you'll be 40 (9.50 / 4)
life's too short, hon! 

Get on with yer badself.

And happy birthday -- you know that Terry looks exactly like you, right? That pic of you at 4 sealed it!

hugs and call again soon, k?

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


can I start? (9.50 / 2)
I still have a very favorable opinion of you, even if you were part of the "SYFPH" goon squad, lol!

Someone complained that Adam was circumventing my banning (8.40 / 5)

by allowing me to convey my responses through his account.

I wonder what the rule is on that. A spouse quoting his wife standing next to him? Will there now be a rule concerning the content of posts? Will people be disallowed from posting quotes from banned people?

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


In a word, yes (8.25 / 8)
Nobody will be allowed to post a diary written by you, nor containing quotes from you.

All of your known associates will be banned.

You are banned FOR LIFE, doll.  Extremely banned.  You were on Double Secret Probation and you didn't even know it.

Shit, seven years of college, down the drain....


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
And some word-sniffer software will auto-censor... (8.43 / 7)
... phrases like "probleMS OCcur" because they contain the letter sequence "MSOC."

DeM SOciety. Gone.

I'M SO Cold. Zapped.


[ Parent ]
If there isn't a rule, (7.00 / 4)
there will be now. Along with ex post facto enforcement.

[ Parent ]
You ever get the feeling Kos is just making up shit... (7.00 / 1)
...as he goes along?

Reminds me of the one and only time I golfed at the Brentwood Country Club (on a guest pass).  Some high muckity muck took a disliking to me somewhere on the 11th hole and I was informed that I would have to leave immediately, since I was violating the rules about not wearing a striped polo shirt.

"But," I protested, "there's no rules against wearing a striped polo shirt."

"There is now," I was informed, and two VERY BIG security guards popped out of the ground (or appeared when the evil sorerer's minions hurled a magic globe onto the green).

Fortunately, I was golfing with a well-connected member who insisted I be permitted to stay.

Anyway, at least I got thrown out of the Brentwood Country Club.  I think I saw "the real killers" practicing their putts, too.  I dunno how OJ could have missed them.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
No feeling about it. (9.00 / 1)
I know it to a certainty.

What I don' t get is why he ever pretends to justify the purges through the ever-changing rule book. The only conclusion possible it he desires the drama and controversy that inventing rules with selective enforcement brings. Why that is desirable is a mystery. Maybe it gives him more hits, but surly he must know how defeating that will be in the long run.


[ Parent ]
Please don't call me Shirley (10.00 / 5)
surely he must know how defeating that will be in the long run.

Not necessarily.  A wiser person than I once observed that Mr. Moulitsas has a self-destructive streak wider than the Golden Gate Bridge.

Not only that, he's not in this for the long run--DailyKos will be sold after the 2008 elections.

An open presidential election only happens once every eight years in American politics.  Many races will be hotly contested, and a LOT of money is going to be spent on political ads.  Open presidential races also have higher rates of interest/participation than other political years.

All of which means that DailyKos will get lots of advertising dollars and pageviews through November, 2008, thereby making it appear a prime "investment" property.

Thus it will be that DailyKos will be sold at an inflated value, Kos kept on as an overpaid consultant, and Kos will move on to other ventures.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
You're welcome to post with my Kos account (7.50 / 2)
But you'll have to become a Zionist. 

If you haven't been kicked out of a place like DailyKos, you haven't been working hard enough!

Happy Birthday, luv, and many many many many more.

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.


[ Parent ]
What is the point of banning you from DKos (4.00 / 6)
if you keep posting there through Adam's account?

And you sure do bitch a lot about being banned, considering you have such disdain for the site and its proprietor.

Please.  Get help.


[ Parent ]
Might I suggest you acquaint (0.00 / 0)
yourself with a mirror?

[ Parent ]
I think you may have (11.00 / 1)
touched a nerve on that one when you cross-posted Stu Piddy's diary. heh

Nonetheless, Mr. Misogeny CAN ban you on that copyright technicality (even if you misread the warning), BUT the real question is "Should he?"

Unfortunately it appears as if Leftism is just another form of porn in his eyes.


Guaranteed to be plastered all over the Internet
Drinking Liberally in New Milford


[ Parent ]
??? (5.55 / 11)
Why don't you focus on making your web site everything you think Daily Kos should be but isn't?  Just as many if not more people get frustrated with you, and think you can be just as ineffective ...for different reasons, like constantly, dramatically, and overwrittenly freaking out at people that don't have your exact attitude toward progressive change.

The only difference is they don't let it become an obsession that tries to muck up the left-wing blogosphere.


I'm in process. (9.29 / 7)

And I'll think, feel, write and post what I want, thank you very much.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
... (2.29 / 7)
Oh, I know you will...just trying to get something at least a little critical in before all the pats on the back come alone, and everybody starts comparing Kos to Stalin, Lieberman or Ronald Reagan.

[ Parent ]
Not me, Rafters (8.00 / 2)
Stalin was well-known for doing his own dirty work.

Lieberman actually has an effect on politics.

Ronald Reagan is Kos' hero, but he was tall and not unhandsome.

Nope, Kos is like none of them.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
Uh, Rafters... (0.00 / 0)
He is a self-admitted Reagan Republican. heh

Guaranteed to be plastered all over the Internet
Drinking Liberally in New Milford


[ Parent ]
no, no (7.00 / 1)
he's a Reagan Democrat now . . .

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

[ Parent ]
&@*HDSN (0.00 / 0)
He is a self-admitted former Reagan Republican. I don't doubt he aint perfect, and he's hardly my favorite blogger in the world, but his flaws don't begin to make this whole spat (especially the tone on this site) in any way sane.

[ Parent ]
Your're right (7.50 / 2)
I find it ironic that the banning was about a cross posted diary that wasn't written by Maryscott, and received few comments or recommends.

[ Parent ]
I hate to see this... (9.40 / 10)
...and by "this" I mean this meta / inside baseball / who's a bigger asshole discussion between and among people who have more in common than not; and at a time when there are other matters that cry for attention and action.

I also really hate to see the piling on, wherein folks feel free to put in their two cents about why A or B is the bigger asshole. The person with the biggest pile wins, or loses - I forget which.

Yeah, there's more to it than any of that, and I can empathize. Oh, yeah, I can empathize mightily with the feelings of hurt, anger, righteousness, passion, and all else related.

Let me put it this way - Maryscott has been a friend to me, online and in person; she's been an inspiration, a voice of provocative thought, and a source of wonder and admiration.

I stand by and with my friends - there are precious few of them. And so I stand with Maryscott, whether or not I agree with her, whether or not I think her words and actions are well-advised, and whether or not it gets me anything on the upside, or down. It's what I'd want from her, and it's what I expect she'd give me.

"This" isn't the sum total of her being, or the defining moment of our relationship. It'll pass, however much time that takes. And we'll still need our friends, and that's what we'll be.

"...psychopaths have little difficulty infiltrating the domains of...politics, law enforcement, (and) government." Dr. Robert Hare


Aw, hell, now you make me quote myself (8.56 / 9)
I hate quoting myself.  Pretty soon I'll start talking about myself in the third person:  "The Blogging Curmudgeon would like two scoops of ice cream, please..." 

Anyway, here's what I think Maryscott agrees with:

Mr. Moulitsas does not intend his blog as a forum for excellent writers and insightful thinkers.

Kos ran all of them off a long time ago, with the exception of the last one fit to hold Tom Paine's quill, Maryscott O'Connor.

Now Kos has banned Maryscott, as so many of us predicted he would.

But why?

Kos' conception of DailyKos is as a "noise machine" for the Democratic Party.  DailyKos is not a forum for progressive political writing nor for debate; DailyKos is, by design, an echo chamber.

The single-minded bleating that you hear at DailyKos is not an accident; Kos has run off anybody who doesn't bleat that one sheep-like note because he wants to be a power broker.

Kos wants to point to "his" community and say to politicians, "I can deliver these people to you.  I say 'Jump!' and they ask, 'How high?'."

Maryscott was the last major impediment to Kos' vision of this "community", in which the only ideas and opinions that matter are his (either delivered directly, or, increasingly, passed from him through his lieutenants, like a Pope uses his bishops and cardinals to deliver doctrine).

To sum up:  Those of you who point out that DailyKos has now become an intellectually sterile place that is boring beyond belief miss that this was Kos' intention all along.

Mr. Moulitas distrusts, as he should, people who have PRINCIPLES.  Principled people are not always loyal to a party, nor to a person, but to a sense of justice and of values that they will not compromise for the sake of personal nor political gain.

Such people are dangerous to a Democratic Party enforcer, which is Kos' role on the blogosphere.  Mr. Moulitsas' blog was originally grown in size through its links to MyDD.com and through its connection to Howard Dean's idealistic 2004 presidential campaign precisely so that it could suck the oxygen out of the blogosphere and deprive  other, truly progressive blogs of their chance to speak to the people.

Kos is triumphant--for now.  But reality is a bitch on wheels.  Kos is in exactly the same situation as Bush was when Bush launched the Iraq War in 2003:  Bush belittled and brushed aside all of his critics, cashiering the one general (Eric Shinseki) who had the guts to question the wisdom of the enterprise before Congress.

Bush's bullying strategy worked--for time.  But ultimately, reality set in, and one by one, ALL of the warnings of his critics came true.  People like the forced-into-early-retirement General Shinseki were proven prophetic.

I don't think Kos cares about the long-term health of DailyKos, because I think he's prepping the place for a sale (hence the "gentrification").  Kos smells his payday and is going to walk away with cash in pocket, leaving his blog to fail under new management.

That last bit is just informed speculation, of course; I've seen people "clean up" their businesses before in preparation for a sale, and Mr. Moulitsas is no different in that regard.  If you want to sell your corner grocery, you've got to run out those teenagers who hang around the magazine rack and those hippies who smoke weed in front of the store.  Kos has run off the last of the undesirables, and now, with his blog's value at its maximum dollar value, he is ready to sell it to a corporate sugar daddy (he will stay on as a "consultant", of course, which means he'll get paid a fat salary for doing Jack Shit--in other words, corporate America at its best worst).

And so it goes.

Anybody wants me, I'll be on Tramalfador.



Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

By the way, ice cream is free on Tramalfador (11.00 / 1)
They're quite an advanced civilization.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
The Blogging Curmudgeon is pleased (8.33 / 3)
With the "11" ratings he has received thus far.

Happy Birthday, Maryscott. 

Look...ordinarily I wouldn't offer to do this but...I live like 20 miles from Kos' house and I have the address (no, really).  I can do a driveby fruiting if you insist.  Ole Kos'll think twice as he's scraping those cling peaches out of his ears.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
The ONLY line in "Mrs. Doubtfire" that made me laugh aloud! (0.00 / 0)

"A drive-by fruiting!"

Oh, man, you are SO my soulmate.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
The only question is, fresh fruit or canned? (0.00 / 0)
And is my pitching arm all that it used to be?

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
Definitely canned (0.00 / 0)
Much softer, it's messier when it lands. And any pits have been removed; less danger of hurting someone.

Just be sure you rinse the sugar syrup off first so your hands don't get sticky.

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
But wouldn't it be more efficient (7.00 / 1)
to just throw the cans?

Insert witty quote here.

[ Parent ]
This is why I hate decisions by committee n/t (7.00 / 1)


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
The Blogging Curmudgeon overestimates... (6.00 / 3)
...the perceived passivity and mediocrity of those of us who still maintain a DKos account, as well as the quality of output we generate (whether on DKos or elsewhere). I would ask nicely that we're not all painted with the same brush, because I think that's very unfair. Markos is gonna have to run off a lot more of us if he truly wants a place free from excellent writers and insightful thinkers.

mbr + dv + woyg

[ Parent ]
TheBloggingCurmudgeon is, I believe, (3.33 / 3)

employing hyperbole for effect. Said effect being making a point. Said point being that the vast MAJORITY of active, posting members of Daily Kos are as he describes. There is, of course (and I think TBC would agree), a significant minority who remain at DKos not because they are unquestioning sheeple with the critical thinking skills and intellectual capacity of a semi-comatose hycrocephalic horse, but because they still hold out hope for DKos, that it may someday reverse course, return to its promised path and head on down the road to the holy land of Doing the What's Right Instead of What's Easy.

I don't have any condescension toward those people; I appreciate their vigour, their optimism and their commitment; and, in case it needs pointing out, until I was banned yesterday, I WAS one of that significant minority. I wasn't hanging out at Daily Kos because it was fucking FUN. I stayed because I held out hope for improvement. It was excruciating; it is no longer stimultaing, enjoyable, fun or inspiring to hang out at Daily Kos. I used to spend hours at a time there; now, I can barely tolerate reading an entire 100 comment thread in one sitting. The atmosphere is oppressive and depressing and hostile and angry -- ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Not to mention creepy as hell, what with all the "spies" lurking around every corner, waiting to catch people out with infractions against the myriad fucking rules, explicitly stated and tacitly understood, officially posted and mysteriously applicable at seemingly random times to only certain people... seemingly.

No, I, tooo was one of the hopeful. Actually, despite my banishment, I STILL retain that cockeyed optimism; only now it's more along the lines of hoping that whichever corporation buys Daily Kos will see the wisdom in applying LESS hands-on micromanaging picayune diary police bullshit and instead restoring the site's commmunity self-policing to what it used to be -- if that's at all possible. Ironically, it might take a draconian heavyhanded approach to dealing with self-appointed rules enforcers and hall monitors who refuse to adapt to the kinder, gentler DKos.

: )


--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Yeah (10.00 / 1)
I'm sorry, I think I had a moment of weakness and took it personally. My apologies. Nobody owes me of all people an explanation- I am in fact not one of the hope-holder-outers, and I don't think I was ever there (or here, I guess) for the activism or the up-with-people community aspect. You all have, for many years, had me beat by miles on that and more, and I sincerely appreciate and admire everyones' efforts in that regard.

So yeah, I should know better than to flinch at pointed hyperbole- and here I was thinking I was so good at that myself- but I did take a second to think about what I do there. I spend time in the late-night, off-topic diaries. I spend time in the milder meta threads. I make one-liners. I shamelessly pimp my off-site creativity (as I do here- thanks, btw). That's the fun I find there, I think, which of course is not the explicit stated platform, but there you have it. I don't think hope is in the equation for me.

I think that's sort of why I took TBC's comment the way I did- rightly or not. Through my relative inaction there (embarassing, I guess, for someone with a 4-digit uid; sorry, had to say it) I feel more like one of the multitudes so often railed against, even though I'm decidedly not among the troll-hunting, curse-fearing rules police. I definitely appreciate the criticisms, for sure, especially when I recall the one time I was briefly a target, cause I was brought up on the golden rule (secular version) and I'm always impatient with people who so obviously aren't (and I agree, there's lots of them there, but that's anywhere, right?).

I forgot where I was going with this, except the "yes, point taken" part, so I'll say again what I said earlier this weekend with the same emphatic colorful metaphors:

Happy Motherfucking Birthday. Hope it was a good one in all the ways that count.

mbr + dv + woyg


[ Parent ]
If it ever was progressive, (9.22 / 9)
which I now doubt, it is no longer.

This had nothing at all to do with copyright, "rules", progressive politics or anything of the kind. It is a fundamental mistake to dignify any of these bannings with any pretense that they are about more than profit, the Almighty Dollar. That all it is, it is everything. Kos&Co. are no more sincere in their motives than Bush&Co. Ignore each their words and justifications, they are a fraud.

Earlier this year, I posted this in a diary at DK:

The point of this diary is to remind all of you to please not think of  this place as a community. It is not, your individual voice matters here as much as it does in Washington, and you are expendable if you dare to challenge the status quo. Daily Kos is a business, there is nothing wrong with that standing alone, but like all businesses its single function is to make money. There is no community policing underway, that's a ruse, but there are police. The purpose of the police isn't to keep trolls away, but to keep the blog mainstream enough to generate more revenue.


The world will not be changed here. The belief that DK is a movement is just illusion which causes power, thought, money and energy to be drained from real potential. As you go forward, please view DK in a skeptical light, scratch your head when things seem out of whack, but if you want to stay, keep your doubts silent.

It is more clear than ever that nothing good will come from DK, and that may be the point.



Truly Fucking Superb Comment. (9.50 / 2)

Man, I wish I had your economy with words.

You distilled it to its essence in a tenth of the time I would, and with far more artistry.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Nothing Good (10.46 / 13)
tell that to the folks at Pretty Bird Woman House .  Which is currently 10K better off due almost entirely to people who connected on the great orange satan to act instead of just wring their hands after hearing a new report.

dKos is both the best and worst of the internet... and of humanity for that matter.

Hell - MSOC, like it or not, got her blogging start there.  Nothing good ever came from there?

  Yes it's changed, yes it's disappointing but damn it let's stop becoming what we're fighting. 

Let's stop creating "others" who are worthy only of our disdain.

I share the frustration - but damn it - a hell of a lot of good HAS come from that site and for all it's flaws, some probably still will - and much good can come from THIS site - if we refuse to allow it to become merely and anti-them site.  Obviously people need to express their frustrations - I'm in no way condoning a SYFPH environment (which, as MSOC admits and repents, she was once a part of) - but let's be the better people in this and avoid the sort of overgeneralizations that so infuriate us when they're made about MSOC and her minions.

Oh - and one of the keys to limiting the importance of dKos is to stop acting like it's the center of the fucking universe.  Things change - especially on the internet that I'm not accessing through prodigy or compuserve.... or aol....  or using netscape.... or explorer....

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
Now that's a superb comment (11.00 / 3)


(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

[ Parent ]
You actually touch on one of my points (7.50 / 6)
DailyKos has been surpassed in pageviews, technical sophistication, and overall quality by the Huffington Post.

DailyKos looks creaky and quaint by comparison.  Ever check out one of those "quick reads" on the HuffPo?  Way cool.

However, Huffington Post doesn't really have user-generated content, and DailyKos does. 

Unfortunately, Kos doesn't really let people post freely on the site--everybody has to do their homework and research what topics are "acceptable" and not.  Kos bleats about "community" and user generated content, but fact is, it's a gated community and only "nice" people who do and say as they're told are allowed to stay.  The limits on debate become narrower by the day.

As for the money that went to a battered woman's shelter:  that's all well and good, but sort of reminds me of the evil corporations like Exxon who give money to handicapped children to burnish their image while continuing to rape the environment and fleece consumers.  Doing a penny's worth of good doesn't balance out a hundred dollars' worth of evil.

Kos is participating, in his own small way, in the corruption of politics--he's for sale to the highest bidder.  That's not what democracy is supposed to be about.


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
as is damn near everyone else (9.50 / 2)
I appreciate the frustration and the need to vent - but let's not go over the top with it.  Let's not become what we're fighing. Let's not spend so much energy hating on Kos that we forget to focus on the bigger picture.

Good HAS come from that site, as, sadly, has much bad.  I think the biggest mistake was letting humans be involved.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
You are so full of shit (4.90 / 10)
Unfortunately, Kos doesn't really let people post freely on the site--everybody has to do their homework and research what topics are "acceptable" and not.

Markos doesn't allow unsubstantiated conspiracy drivel. Most of us appreciate that.


[ Parent ]
Yep, the 2000 election in Florida and 2004 election in Ohio (8.29 / 7)
Were both fairly contested.  No voter fraud, people.

Everybody move along.

Except, wait...Representative John Conyers investigated voter fraud in Ohio in 2004 and ya know what his staff found?

Uh...tons and tons of evidence of fraud.  All documented with a meticulous attention to truth and detail.

You can't get it reported through the corporate-owned "mainstream" media.  They're not interested.

Neither is Markos Moulitsas.

Or is John Conyers a "conspiracy theorist" now?  Conyers is a REAL Democrat, not a fake Reagan Democrat like your boy Kos.  Conyers was on Nixon's enemies' list when Kos was just an itch in his papa's pantalones.


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
Isn't it intersesting (3.40 / 5)
that Conyers (who also posts on your vaunted HuffPo) hasn't brought up the charges you site now that he has control of a congressional committee and is accountable for his actions?

Your argument is baseless.


[ Parent ]
Conyers is Chairman of the Judiciary Committee (7.50 / 2)
And right now, he's tied up with a little matter that you may have heard of:  the scandal over the firing of eight U.S. attorneys on partisan grounds.

Conyers has only been in charge of the committee for three months, and much of the work of that very important committee has been tied up investigating Alberto Gonzales, et al.

However, for your information, Conyers DID hold hearings on the matter of election fraud:

Hearing: "Protecting the Right to Vote: Election Deception and Irregularities in Recent Federal Elections"

Held March 2, 2007.

http://judiciary.hou...

Guess you missed that one.  Busy or willfully uninformed, like most of the Kossack sheep? 

The followup hearings had to be moved to a different point on the calendar because of the breaking U.S. attorneys scandal.

This excerpt from Congressman Conyers' opening statement proves why he's a great statesman and Kos is just a pathetic fifth-rate Democratic Party wardheeler:

If we allow the infrastructure of our democracy to decay, our citizens will lose faith in our elections - too many already have - and the very legitimacy of our democratic institutions is at risk. Forty years after the passage of the Voting Rights Act - and I sat in this body when it was enacted - voters across the country continue to be the targets of deceptive practices and intimidation aimed at preventing them from voting. It is long past time for federal legislation to stop this from occurring.

It's quite fucking obvious you don't know what you're talking about, "Coldblue Steele". 


Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
Do I have to repeat myself? (5.00 / 3)
When will Conyers bring charges? Will he bring charges?...I doubt it. Why?

He hasn't got the goods? Just maybe?

But of course he's busy investigating the US attorney scandal.

Nope, you're still full of shit.


[ Parent ]
What a fucking idiot you are (5.33 / 3)
I mean, really.

CONYERS HAS TO HOLD A MOTHERFUCKING HEARING FIRST.

HE DID THAT IN MARCH 2007, BARELY SIX WEEKS INTO THE NEW CONGRESS.

THIS ISN'T EVEN MAY 2007 YET.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ, you try my patience.

I show you that YOU are full of shit and you're too fucking dumb.

You:  Why hasn't he held hearings yet?

Me:  He has (link to prove it)

You:  Why hasn't he brought charges yet?

ANSWER:  A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER TO BRING FUCKING CHARGES.  THEY TURN THEIR EVIDENCE OVER TO THE GODDAMNED FBI.  IT'S THE FUCKING EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT FUCKING INVESTIGATES POSSIBLE VIOLATIONS OF FEDERAL ELECTION LAWS.

I'm done talking to you, you dumb shit.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
You're better than this, TBC. (9.00 / 1)

Yeah, I know you're angry, but this post is just rife with the kind of abusive, unproductive vitriol I used to post before my Reformation. You know, the kind of shit I wouldn't say to someone's face but somehow didn't think twice about saying to them online?

You both might do well to stop and consider how you might be conducting this heated debate were you sitting across from each other in a bar with all the rest of us sitting at a large table, listening to the ongoing passionate dialogue.

I doubt seriously that, given your awareness of the presence of an audience and given your proximity to your debate partner, that either one of you would be anything close to as hostile and combative and abusive as you have been in this discussion.

Just something to consider.

It's a slippery slope from giving in to the temptation to lay into someone to developing full blown Online Personality Disorder. Trust me -- I know from experience. And the recovery process is slow and painful. It involves a lot of humilty and humiliation, and way too many fucking apologies for anyone with a huge ego to tolerate comfortably.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
What the fuck? (9.22 / 9)

As for the money that went to a battered woman's shelter:  that's all well and good, but sort of reminds me of the evil corporations like Exxon who give money to handicapped children to burnish their image while continuing to rape the environment and fleece consumers.  Doing a penny's worth of good doesn't balance out a hundred dollars' worth of evil.

See now this is where this US vs Them nonsense really starts stinking of shit.

The people who gave money to Pretty Bird Woman House were individual human beings, not some evil, orange hive-mind.  You are not a better human being for being here than they are for being there.  You are just not.  How dare you denigrate the donations of those individuals to Pretty Bird Woman House?  Really.  How dare you?


-- pants


[ Parent ]
You didn't know? (6.50 / 4)
Dkos is a single organism bent on evil that has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

And that's the "nuanced" version around here.


(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
how did that help? (9.00 / 2)
here is no more monolithic than there...

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.

[ Parent ]
I call it (6.00 / 1)
the mirror effect.

But you're right, it isn't very effective.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
Oh, I dare (6.75 / 4)
So those individuals made donations?

Good on them.

But I fail to grasp how that redeems the overwhelming damage DailyKos continues to do to the progressive cause.

Or didn't you know that Kos promotes candidates who want to take away a woman's right to control her own body?  Including the women at Pretty Bird Woman House?

So because he permits people to solicit donations for this shelter on his site, it makes it OK for him to try to stuff the Senate and House full of anti-choice Democrats?

Sorry, your logic does not compute.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
MY logic? (9.20 / 5)
Let me again remind you of exactly what you wrote:

As for the money that went to a battered woman's shelter:  that's all well and good, but sort of reminds me of the evil corporations like Exxon who give money to handicapped children to burnish their image while continuing to rape the environment and fleece consumers.  Doing a penny's worth of good doesn't balance out a hundred dollars' worth of evil.

That was a disgusting thing to say.  You failed to separate your dislike of Markos and the behavior of certain individuals from the *many thousands of other individuals* there.  You denigrated the good contributions of other human beings because it was easier for you to see them as part of The Other, than it was to step outside of that frame for *one fucking second* and see how toxic and stupid it is.  You really do seem to believe that you are a better human being because you don't post there than any other human being who sullies themselves by posting there.  It was an extraordinarly assholish thing to say.

IOW, screw you.

-- pants


[ Parent ]
It was not a disgusting thing to say (6.00 / 2)
From my point of view.

Please spare me the fake outrage.  I'm not buying it, and you shouldn't be selling it.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
Nope (0.00 / 0)
just willfully ignorant and obtuse.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

[ Parent ]
please stop. (0.00 / 0)

please.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
ANOTHER TRULY FUCKING SUPERB COMMENT (8.00 / 2)

I agree with you completely.

And strike that last line from my embracing of the comment I praised above. I skipped the last line.

AHA. I see a pattern emerging.

I think I may have an actual tendency to skip over last lines.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
heh... (0.00 / 0)
often that's the first thing I read.

the blockquoted part WAS brilliant - and I recognize (and hope) that the last line was an overstatement in a moment of anger, but I still feel it's important to challenge those overstatements.

I do have a bit of a quibble with one line in the blockquote - that site has helped change the world - but no one site, no one group, does it alone.

each one can plant seeds, water seeds already planted, harvest what has grown.  dKos is not a community in and of itself - nor is MLW.  but community, or perhaps more appropriately connection does form within them and at least partially because of them.  People's lives are changed - and that does change the world.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
To elaborate. (6.00 / 4)
The site has not, did not, and will not change a thing. Each  as time passes it becomes more apparent that it is an obstruction to positive change. The Democratic Party is no good to the country, or the world for that matter, as the Republican-Lite Party. It is long past time for a true opposition party. So long as their are massive illusions of hope, such as DK, which obscure the fact that the Democratic Party, as it is now, is  nothing more than an extension of the problem, no good will come.

The Democratic Party, with the rest of us, will thrive when new ideas are allowed to challenge it. When demands for a new direction are heard. The purpose of DK is to prevent that challenge. No good.


[ Parent ]
This damned Human Race (9.40 / 5)
I've been reading some of the more obscure Mark Twain of late. I had just finished reading his remarks on the 10,000,000 dead in the Belgium Congo when I popped onto DailyKos.

We have a proxy war in Somalia so we can get their oil.

We have a war in Iraq so we can get their oil.

We, (by we, I mean Elliot Abrams and everyone that allows him to set foot in DC), have been funding the rebels in Darfur so we can split Sudan into three, get great oil deals in southern Sudan and Darfur.

100 years later, we White Colonial Asses are still killing natives for their resources.

And what does DailyKos talk about? How evil it is of you to post a whole short article from MSNBC.

It was kind of a depressing night. Things will never change. We will cheer as we kill. The progressives in Israel are trying to stop a war their government is saying will not happen, but are planning for. It will kill many Israelis and Arabs. No one is stopping it. Far too wrapped up in a 'fuck' here or there to worry about simple things like death on the scales of thousands or millions.


I agree wholeheartedly (9.50 / 2)
and then I reflect on how I've just spend a good portion of my evening here...  "they" are not the only ones who get distracted.

This morning, one of the worship services at the church I work at focused on raising funds and awareness for TEXT"> SaveDarfur

think I'm going to step away for a bit and refocus myself.  This discussion IS important, and it's real, but it's not ultimately real important. 
(hah, if I didn't maim that cliche, I at least strained it).

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
just remember that you were not the first... (9.00 / 1)
this bit o' orange history should be a "must read" for anyone involved in the conversation here....

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


and just in case you don't want to read the (8.60 / 5)
whole thing:

HisSelf chimes in here:


  Okay, you finally got me to bite (4.00 / 3)
I've resisted entreaties to ban you from a lot of people, not just Armando. But seriously, calling Tester and Kaine "Republican Trojan Horses" is my last straw.

I'm sure I'll hear plenty of people cry about this, but I'm sick and tired of this "vichy Dem" crap. There might be a time and place for it, but smearing good Democrats in tough states as "Republicans" is ridiculous.

But I suspect this has been your goal all along, to continue to be increasingly obnoxious and inflammatory until you were banned, so you could then be the martyr and cry to the world about your truths being silenced by the Big Bad Vichy Dem Censors.

So congratulations, you've got your martyr status. Have fun wielding it.

by kos on Sun Dec 04, 2005 at 02:06:46 PM PDT

[ Parent ]

It is an old old pattern for anyone who is watching, and the charge of martyr/victim/drama queen/king was wielded *waaay* before Maryscott came to prominence...

This history lesson has been brought to you by SUNDAY AFTERNOON IN TEXAS -- where, as of tyhis writing, no more bombs have been placed (since earlier this week in Austin)

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


[ Parent ]
Kos can copy and paste that comment (5.75 / 4)
It's an all purpose, one size fits all comment for prominent dissidents.

Only problem is, they're all gone.  Maryscott was the last.  Madman in the Marketplace was one in a string of victims.

Good to see that Kos rewarded Armando's loyalty, though...with a banning.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
I took the time (6.75 / 4)
and read the entire post. My reaction is that I am stunned at the vitriole that was heaped on Madman in the Marketplace and how his take on Dkos and the community was twisted by Armando. After Blogging Curmedgeons comments about Kos and Maryscott's banning, I am convinced that the reason used was nonsense and was a ruse so he could ban her. I've read a good part of the comments from kos's "rules" and except for the absence of Armando it appears to be the same atmosphere... silence the critics of kos. It is almost frightening if it weren't so pathetic.  I have always posted at dkos cautiosly, as I had been witness to some of the flame wars that have gone on regarding the more controversial topics, like AIPAC, I/P, voter fraud and the mere mention of conspiracy theories that were verboten. I realize that dkos is a private site and kos can make whatever rules he sees fit to guide it but it seemed like even constructive cricism of kos or his rules would bring about verbal trashing, if not, out right banning. This has been even more of an awakening for me. I won't stop reading dkos but I certainly will read it in a different light.Thank you for being here, Maryscott.

"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth" TheMomCat

[ Parent ]
The best writing (0.00 / 0)
I have seen at OJ. Simply stunning.

Click on his name, you get his blog.

He's got a post up today.

I am simply using he to conserve bandwidth.

Brilliant.

Didn't read the comments. Certainly a Yogi Berra Deja Vu type of thing.


[ Parent ]
? (0.00 / 0)
what post at what blog?  it's impossible to tell what you're talking about without a link or at least a blog name.  what is OJ?

[ Parent ]
Excuse me (6.00 / 3)
You do not knwo what you speak of. Madman had been accusing me and Kos of being corrupt, on the taker, for months before that thread.

Daily Kos mayu be all TBC says, but dso not lie about what MAdman accused me and others of.

IT was a libel of the worst sort.

Enjoy him as you wish, but the lies he spewed are there for the record.


[ Parent ]
OK, I'll bite (7.00 / 1)
I am not sure who you are addressing. And I have no idea what you are talking about, other than what ever you are accusing Madman of having accused you. I am also not sure what you mean about,
  "Daily Kos mayu be all TBC says, but dso not lie about what MAdman accused me and others of."
If you think you were libeled by Madman take him to court.
By the way, you really need to preview your posts before you click "print". I've learned that lesson a few times.
And one more thing, your syntax is very poor, ending a sentence with a preposition is bad form.

"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth" TheMomCat

[ Parent ]
I';m taking you on (1.50 / 4)
for saying untruths about me and Madman.

As for your writing advice, I give you integrity advice, much more valuable. You don't want to be known as a liar.

Take it please.


[ Parent ]
Are you delusional? (8.67 / 3)
Just what are these alledged "untruths"? And as for you giving me "integrity advice" that is just really laughable. You obviously have a very high opinion of yourself if you think I would value advice from you.
  And just what do you mean by, "You don't want to be known as a liar."
I think you need to go back and re-read what I posted. And I think you now owe me an apology.
  By the way,the only advice I gave you was about your obvious inability to edit your posts before you print them and you very poor sytax. That still stands.

"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth" TheMomCat

[ Parent ]
I'll repeat them (0.00 / 0)
You wrote I distorted Madman's corruption charges against me.

You lied. This is the third time I have identified your lie.

You owe me an apology.

I will not hold my breath.


[ Parent ]
I was right. (11.00 / 1)
You can read my response to your LIE at the other diary. You, sir are the LIAR and have put words into my comments about your responses to Madman that are not here. And besides being a LIAR you are DELUSIONAL. You need to get some medication for this problem lest someone with more time takes you seriously and hauls you into court for libel.

"By the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" Wm. Shakespeare, "Macbeth" TheMomCat

[ Parent ]
Lying about your lies (0.00 / 0)
You wrote 'My reaction is that I am stunned at the vitriole that was heaped on Madman in the Marketplace and how his take on Dkos and the community was twisted by Armando."

I tweisted nothing. You loie when you say I did. You know not of what you speak and choose to continue to lie.

Does your small mind understand now what you lied about? I think you knew exactly what I am talking about.

But you will no doubt be the belle of MLW, the mini-DKos.


[ Parent ]
I remember that post. A classic. (6.00 / 3)

And I'll never be able to say for sure, but I SUSPECT it was one of the first posts that made me start questioning the purpose and direction of DKos. You might say I started getting metaphysical after being exposed to pieces like Madman's and other prominent dissenters who either went out in blazes of glory or faded away after quietly speaking their pieces...

And now here I am, better late than never, I suppose -- cast out into the same wilderness for the same offenses. What kept me immune for so long? My own ambivalence? Cowardice? Or just my infuriating inability to grasp the truth until I've examined every fucking inch of it while all around me the walls crumble and the floor beneath me cracks, the wins blows away the roof in huge strips and I'm left standing in a torrential downpour of acid rain?

Yeesh. I think I just maimed a metaphor.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
It sounds like you need a good building contractor (7.67 / 3)
Or you need to report your landlord to the building code enforcement agency.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
cleanup on aisle 5 (7.50 / 2)
Meta Medic - stat... we've got a badly maimed metaphor here

and where the fuck did all this fruit come from?

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
So you found his accusation of me as corrupt (8.50 / 4)
brilliant do you?

Thi sis EXACTLY what is wrong with the groupthink at MLW. You have a good point and then move on to defending the enemy of your enemy.

You do know who Madman's closest ally in the blogs is don't you? Marisacat.

Madman did to me what Marisacat does to you.

Fairness is a concept ignored at daily kos AND MLW.


[ Parent ]
Actually, no. (4.00 / 2)

I didn't read it as being about you. I read it as being about Markos. If it was about you, it's seriously unhinged. But I think, as concerns Markos, it's spot the fuck on.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
Are you fucking kiddding me (6.00 / 1)
Cuban Heel Edition?

WTF? It was about me.

You really need to start reading more carefully.


[ Parent ]
marisacat? (0.00 / 0)
oh, her. I ran across her in the Israel/Lebanon diaries. the word I think of is fanatic.

[ Parent ]
Well said Maryscott. (6.17 / 6)
This portion now sums up what many areas of Kos has turned into, especially the Israeli-Palestinian diaries. It seems that Kos has now allowed a large group of right wing Zionists make a home on Daily Kos, and all that they do is police diaries and keep dossiers on proPalestinian bloggers. They constantly write Kos and Hunter in attempts to stop IP diaries from being published. If the diarist has no infraction, the group of these right wingers decend upon the diarist, hijack it, and do whatever comes to mind to turn into muck. THIS KOS TOLERATES. Is there such a thing as AIPAC phobia or is he already on the take. I just posted another comment that reminded people that Kos is at heart an entrepreneur, not former Republican or a liberal Democrat or a people powered Democrat.

To date, four regular IP diarists have been banned from Kos, and maybe more that I do not know about.

You put it right when you said, "diary police" who become the self-appointed hall monitors and nannies, greedily scouring the site for incidents of rule breaking.

Where this site used to be bursting at the seams with lively conversations, heated debate and passionate discourse, now if you see any diary discussion with over 100 comments, it's a safe bet that a goodly percentage of those comments are people bickering at each other over "rules" infractions, or dragging lame, tired rivalries with them from god knows when."




Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


And (7.71 / 7)
by the same token, if this site has a diary with over 100 comments, it is an even safer bet that the topic is either Markos, Dkos, Maryscott and Dkos or Maryscott and Markos.

And there are plenty of people here dragging lame, tired rivalries around with them.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
You forgot people who only come here to bitch about the bitching (9.00 / 2)
I'd better stock up on fruit.  It's gonna be a LONG hot summer of driveby fruitings.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
I liked you better (7.50 / 2)
when I was dead to you.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

[ Parent ]
I never liked you at all (5.71 / 7)
Dead or alive.

But yeah, you're better off Dead To Me.  I find myself nodding off during our conversations.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
Mr. Valentine (8.50 / 2)
Of Duke&Duke Commodities Brokers informs me that he has seen the USDA forcast for this year's Cling Peach crop. Don't know how he does that, BTW.

He is advising his institutional clients to forward contract against spot shortages and rising prices.


[ Parent ]
hahahaha (0.00 / 0)
Paranoid, much?

We right-wing Zionists don't get people banned. We get them disappeared.  If you're still around, it's because you are useful to us. I'll let you figure out how.

Bwuhahahahahahhahahah!

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.


[ Parent ]
Shergald!! Where You Been?? (8.00 / 1)
I was wondering what had happened to you over a DKos.  I must confess that I have lost interest in the past few months.  Lots of navel gazing and uber-policing.  Now I come to find out that you were banned.  For what?  For suggesting that, perhaps, Palestinians are being oppressed by the Israeli occupation?  God forbid that we actually have any discussion of controversial topics that might make the website less appealing to our Chevron advertisers. But I figure that there is more intelligent debate and real disagreement here at MLW.  Glad to see you again.

[ Parent ]
The world is full... (8.00 / 2)
This whole situation reminds me of the Carrie Dahlby song "The World Is Full of A**holes".  Listen at www.thefump.com (The Funny Music Project).  (*WARNING* not appropriate for the kiddies)

Man, You Folks Are Way Too Hard on Moulitas (7.40 / 5)
I mean, besides being a mean, vindictive, misogynistic, dishonest, hypocritical, backstabbing little shit, exactly what do you have against the guy anyway?

There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. -- Mahatma Gandhi

Awhile Back ... (9.00 / 3)
I posted a comment on Skippy's blog that, "Kos is one and we are many." It's unfortunate he has chosen to undermine his own site the way he has. But the blogosphere is a big place and the vacumn he leaves behind will be filled eventually.

Thankfully there are communities like Maryscott's, Booman's, Blue House Diaries and Epluribus among others that are growing.

Intrepid Liberal Journal


A few thoughts... (9.00 / 8)
I have not been around as long as many who are posting in this thread, and I don't feel that I know the history or the details to make any sort of authoritative post.  I would just like to share a few observations and thoughts...for whatever they may be worth.

I am no kos toady and I dearly love Maryscott.  But I met her through dkos where I still love to post.  There is an exciting community there that is not dominated by kos loyalists, though there is clearly that faction and they have given me plenty of hell.  But they've also tolerated my existence.  I've pushed the envelope fairly hard and while they may have roughed me up a bit for it...they have never threatened to ban me...(though it may have been mentioned).

Markos and I have argued and do not see eye to eye on any number of issues, but I'm still there and I have many fine friends there whom you all would love (I just know it).

So it saddens me that internal tensions should get so destructive.  I have a hard time seeing two communities I care about having such enmity when there's a whole world full of rightwingers for us all to unite against.

dkos has some rules I don't agree with and I frequently mention that in my diaries there.  And by dkos standards I am a wild-eyed radical leftist...so if they put up with me, they can't be all that repressive.  I'm not endorsing their rules or restrictons, I think 9/11 ddiscussions should be fair game for example, but there are only a few such restrictions, and I see a lot of diversity of opinion in the diaries there.

If we lived in a world where wishes could turn into ponies, I'd wish that Maryscott and Markos would make up and start being nice to each other again and we could all pull together to change the world.

I love you Maryscott, happy birthday dear heart.  :-)


P.S. (9.00 / 1)
Dallasdoc sends his love!  :-)

OPOL (1.67 / 3)
i GAVE YOU the benefit of the doubt last time.

You, truly, you wrote the thing that made my head explode last time and I wrote a diary that almost cost me every friend I had here.

They didn't get it was written to you.

You went through this whole "woe is me" thing when you thought dKos was "dissing" you and pretty much asked for all our support. You wanted us to boycott dkos for YOU but when it was about MLW you posted THAT VERY DAY!  Fuck the blog roll.listen to me!

EVERY. FUCKING. DIARY. YOU WRITE. I agree with.  And when you say it happens because YOU. DO. NOTHING. I took it to heart.

Then, DKos started making noises about banning you & you had a fit here. 

BUT after that storm when Maryscott had  bad time; you posted there as usual.

This time, after her "banning" you posted a "Thank you to dKos" for all the wondrous support you get there.
here

What a way to distance your self from the fray.

This is the second time for me, take notes from the class off Michael Gottlieb.  You suck, he doesn't. He quit posting there.

I am so pissed off at you I could spit.

I thought by your writing you were the real deal.

Ends up, you are more interested with making nice and getting personal attention then whats right.

Even when it hits you in the face.

YOU ARE NO HIPPY.

YOU ARE NO TRUE BELIEVER.

Maryscott may love you, but I think you are an opportunistic fuck.

Please dont stop posting her on my account. I am NO ONE! But I had to tell you how I feel/

But I had to say it.

You're post Saturday was the sorriest bit of pandering, please like me anyway, piece of shit I have ever seen.

You are an asset to this site.

But personally, I would never let you sit at my table.



[ Parent ]
BTW? (1.33 / 3)
had she not promoted me I would tell you to go fuck yourself,  You are the EPITOME of the sell outs.

We fought, and you don't even care anymore, you just wanna get yours out of the movement.

We fought against people like you.

You LIE. You sell something you dont LIVE>

I know I will be in trouble for posting this; but I live with a man who withstood bullets and goddaned forehoses; he is the real deal honey.

He would never NOT have the real people's back.

Sorry, I'd rather have ethics than power.


[ Parent ]
With whom do you expect to get in trouble? (0.00 / 0)

You're angry at him. You're expressing it. Nothing you've said (with the possible exception of the future imperfect "fuck yourself" -- though you DID make it hypothetical) reaches the level of abuse.

"What family doesn't have its ups and downs?"

I don't expect OPOL to fall on his sword for me, though I understand your maternal outrage. And I love you for it.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
well (4.00 / 1)
falling on one's sword and writing a "god, i love each and every one of you wonderful kossacks" are two different things, the following morning of one of your friends being unfairly banned are two different things.

Yeah, I am pissed.  But like everything else I cannot control, I vented & MUST move on.

grrrrrr


[ Parent ]
Has anyone noticed the similarity in logic -- (4.33 / 3)

or, more accurately, lack thereof -- of the gleeful celebrants at my banning, rationalising its technicality status as "rules are rules"... to the gleeful celebrants at Bill Clinton's impeachment, rationalising its technicality status as "rules are rules..."  or am I way out in left field here?


--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

Nope. (7.00 / 4)
You are spot the fuck on. And just like with Clinton, they were gunning for him and actually set a "perjury trap." They set out to get him on a technicality. Make no mistake. Kos was waiting for you to step out of line in some trivial way, so that he could ban you with a minimum of fuss, and appear totally fair to his mindless minions.

It's the tragedy of the small minded and tribal; so mired in their us/them mentality that they delight in exclusionary minutae. Because then the world is divided into insiders and outsiders, and, Oooohh... I get to sit at the cool kid's table.

This whole thing is so fucking transparent, that, if anything it's a litmus test, of whether or not a person is able to think for himself or parrot group think. Anyone who buys that this was about a transgression that many people still on that site have committed to a worse degree, if a fucking toady.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker


[ Parent ]
This too shall pass (9.57 / 7)
MSOC, I spend far more time on this message board than on Kos, and a quick check will tell you it's not that much time. I also check Huffpo more frequently than Kos.

I applaud you for calling him, only because I believe you simply made a mistake in the original post and were too busy with your birthday to bother with crossing every "i" and dotting every "t" this weekend. So, it's a silly reason for you to be banned and I wouldn't blame you if you felt that you'd just lost something you valued for no good reason.

I'm standing outside, unscathed, so I'm sure I see things differently. For me, Kos should back down, this time. If he doesn't, it's going to tell me a whole lotta things about him, starting with "he's a pussy."

I mean, good LORD woman, it's not like you haven't bit him in the ass 'til he bled so many times he must use one of those "donut" pillows when he sits down. If you're permanently banned over this, it's because he doesn't want to face you again and no one will convince me otherwise.

So this isn't "over", yet. You've made the amends you should have made, I believe sincerely, and the ball is clearly in Markos' court.

But here's the thing. Let me tell it this way:

A few years ago my brother-in-law was into Tarot reading. Every time he'd come to visit I'd ask him to do a reading for me. Now, he knew and you should know that I don't buy into things like this, I don't carry a rabbit's foot, I don't think if I mumble to the great disembodied master of the universe I'll win the lottery...whatever. I thought it was fun.

Sometimes he'd lay the cards down and "death" would come up in my future. This, of course, freaked me out to the extent that something I don't believe in could freak me out. Being the slow-on-the-uptake sort of guy I am it took him a few tries to get me to see that this was a good card.

Every time something ends it opens the door to a thousand possibilities for something better.

It's just that many times we frail humans are afraid of endings, so we never open those doors.

You're not at Markos' mercy. You're not at anyone's mercy. You and Kos may have lost the ability to communicate. It's not so clear who that will hurt the most, but there's an expression that springs to mind: "The best revenge is a life well-lived."

Can I ask you something? Did you remember to dance naked on your birthday? Do you know what I mean by that? It may not be what you think, but I'm betting you did it.

Some of us really admire you, lady. Don't ever forget that.

In the meantime, it's too bad I'm not one of the few posters who always make the recommended lists at Kos. I'd post a title, a "teaser", and a link to the whole post on MLW for the next few days. Just to be ornery.

But mostly, I'd do what I did this weekend. Play with my grand-kids, work with my wife on the yard, work on the business we're starting, play with my cats, play my guitars...


I still can't believe this happened. (8.33 / 3)
Say what you will about Kos, it's still valuable beyond measure to have a Democratic blogging-central where large numbers of Democrats from all over the country, with various degrees of progressive belief, can network and form sub-cliques.  And I still believe in both crashing the gate and having an 11th Commandment about not speaking ill of fellow Democrats as long as there's a significant number of Republicans who are much more deserving of our wrath.

None of which changes the adjectives that come to mind when throwing a powerhouse like MaryScott under the bus: Petty. Counterproductive. Chilling. Boneheaded. Dubya-esque.  Or the completely separate issue of the timing and manner of it, which is something I'd have expected only from a Republican, or from Catbert the evil HR director.

My life has been too busy for a lot of wholehearted political blogging, and I rarely even visited My Left Wing as long as I could get a refreshing dose of MaryScott at Kos now and then.  I hope she's back on board Kos pretty soon, otherwise I feel like I'll have to choose between them.  Not because I particularly want to take sides, but because I don't have the time to peruse that many political blogs. 

(crossposted to both sites)


Was it on a pike? (8.40 / 10)
the diary Markos posted wherein he held up my severed blog-head for the screaming mob to see.

I saw this and my mind immediately went back to a sketch on Saturday Night Live starring Candace Bergen as Ann Boleyn. Phil Hartman played the messenger who had to tell her the details of her pending execution. At some point, Phil tells her that if she chooses beheading over burning, her head will be placed on a pike, and Candace responds, in horror, "On a fish?"

Anyway, that's where *my* mind went from that turn of a phrase I quoted here, and Demetrius was kind enough to do a quick Photoshop at my request. Hope it gives you a moment of levity on your birthday.  :)



My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.


NOW the class moron gets it (0.00 / 0)
(adjusts dunce cap, picks nose, gets slapped by teacher again for picking nose.)

[ Parent ]
Understandable (0.00 / 0)
I can see how that image wouldn't make a lick of sense out of context. I was going to post this link in the other thread, but I see you've found it on your own. :)

My Left Wing Political t-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

[ Parent ]
its about fucking time...now, can we move on? {:o) (7.00 / 1)
"Welcome back to the fight."

-- Viktor Laszlo to Rick Blaine, thanking Blaine for allowing Laszlo and his wife, Ilsa Lund, to escape Nazi-controlled Casablanca with the infamous "letters of transit," formerly in Blaine's possession.

Thought the Hollywood reference particularly fitting for the Birthday Drama Queen.

Have a good one.


Hey maryscott, what do you know? (5.00 / 8)
As some here know I've been a member of Dailykos since before the scoop days and I've read a many of your works.  I have never been overly fond of your writing style (which I've sometimes found unnccessary comabtive or vulgar) but there were times when I thought you made incredibly powerful and poignant points and would tell you so. 

That being said, I am not sorry you are gone from Dailykos.  After a while I hoped you would just leave.  You seemed to hate it there and your diaries more often than not became a dumping ground for your anger, paranoia, and over developed sense of your own supreme judgement.  And you attracted people with a similar level of anger and paranoia who clammored to be in your orbit.  I did not like what you had become, nor the fawning sychophants who would attack anyone who were critical of you.  I find it so ironic that you once wrote a diary about how that blind devotion in your fans disturbed you, and the groupthink you feared spreading as a result of it.

And I won't deny there is that undercurrent of groupthink in Dailykos.  I even recall defending your diary on that point. But I have never found dailykos to be defined by groupthink nearly as much as I have seen in my wonderings of MLW. 

I am tired of the anger and the vitrol and "bullshit!" you cry at every turn and I am not sorry you are gone.  Regardless of all that, I wish you well and hope your blog continues to be successful.  But I fear your seemingly indescriminate combativeness will only be a hamper to you.

cest la vie.


DawnG, I'll have a reply to your post and others like it... (11.00 / 1)

some other time.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
ROFLMAO @ vous (7.50 / 2)
And the Kostapo Pony you rode in on.

c'est la vie; c'est la guerre; tres amusant.


[ Parent ]
Is that all? (6.00 / 3)
You're just going to laugh and call me names?  Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Surely you can do better than that.  You obviously disagree with my statement.  I would love to hear why (without names or assumptions please).  maybe we can come to a better understanding.  That would be preferable wouldn't it?


[ Parent ]
It Works for Me (7.00 / 2)
You came into this court with your feeble argument.

The burden of proof is upon you.

Say what you have to say in fifty words or less.

I'll answer tomorrow.

My time and words are precious.

And I don't waste words on the obtuse.


[ Parent ]
ummm... (0.00 / 0)
...I don't have to prove an opinion.  Nor would I want to.

No one has to PROVE anything here, simply refute, and preferably intelligently.

That's because opinions are different from facts. (in case there was any confusion)


[ Parent ]
I do like a bit of comedy (7.50 / 2)
Even if it is unintentional:

And you attracted people with a similar level of anger and paranoia who clammored to be in your orbit.  I did not like what you had become, nor the fawning sychophants who would attack anyone who were critical of you

Mirror, mirror....

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
And speaking of sycophantry (6.75 / 4)
I doubt many other banned users...

...have the prestige and notoriety to warrant a diary from the great and mighty Kos. MSOC does. 

Doesn't mean the rules aren't being enforced, just means we don't hear about every single person that gets banned, only the popular ones.

by DawnG on Sat Apr 28, 2007 at 09:00:40 PM PDT

Wow, so there's so many banned users even one of Kos' sycophants loyal admirers can't keep track of 'em all?  Maybe you'd better slack off a bit on the pace...won't be anybody left to turn out the lights.

Me, I stopped reading DailyKos a long time ago--I'd say about the 100th time I watched Armando, DHinMi, and assorted other thugs beat somebody to a bloody cyberpulp and then throw his carcass into a dumpster.

I do like the Huffington Post.  Clean, well-lighted place and nobody gets their head broken.  Of course, they don't allow the rabble to speak, just to read, but ah well....

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, have we met? (10.50 / 2)
I don't believe I know who you are. So I am at a loss as to how you can have any idea about the workings of my thought processes.

As far as my opinion of Kos is concerned, this comment I made earlier this month describes it best:

DailyKos is a leader. Markos is our host.

I commented earlier today, markos's job is to pay the bills and keep the site running.  HE is not here to shape OUR opinion.  WE (all of us) are here to shape the opinion of Democrats in power.

In that respect, Kos might be well respected for his contribution to this community, but he is not OUR leader.  He has refused such a classification numerous times.

I don't give much thought to Kos.  I have never met him, I have never spoken to him, He's just one of a hundred thousand other people I happen to share virtual space with.  I respect him as a host but I don't spend much time thinking about what his opinion is on anything.  That's hardly the trademark of a sychophant.

But you've probably already made up your mind about me and I doubt I have any influence over your "superior judgement" to convince you otherwise.  So you know what?  I'm not even going to try.  You just think whatever makes you happy darlin.

 


[ Parent ]
Please forgive my friend's overzealous approach today. (0.00 / 0)

I'm fairly certain he knows I'm going to scold him later for it, but that a part of me is grateful to have such loyal and enthusiastic friends, willing to defend me when I might not be in a strong enough place to defend myself.

You're right, he probably doesn't know much about you personally, and made an assumption based on your statement that you will not miss my presence on DKos...

I assure you and him -- on another day, under different circumstances, were you to meet in person and join a conversation about virtually any topic about which you both felt passionate but did not have anything to do with blogging or DKos or ME, you would likely get along famously.

As would MOST of us, given neutral ground and clean slates devoid of blogging vendettae.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Maryscott, he's not your dog. (11.00 / 1)
Why would you scold him for that?  So many people admire you and try so hard to EMMULATE you.  When you cry "bullshit" to something, they, like a cacaphony of twittering birds yell "Bullshit" echoing you.  (and let me just say I have really come to hate that particular "debate tactic".  It's usually overused or improperly used)

They are not just loyal friends (though I have no doubt they are that as well), many of them are followers.  They follow YOUR example.  And say what you will about him that is something Kos simply doesn't have.

I am not offended by Mr (or Ms.) Curmudgeon's statement.  There are people all over the world who make wild assumptions based on very little information.  It's certainly not something worth getting bent out of shape over.  But I have seen YOU do that yourself.  Don't get surprised when your most loyal friends do it to others.


[ Parent ]
Dawn, you are simply wrong. (1.00 / 1)

I cannot believe that yopu are ignorant of the fact that I have not behaved thusly in well over 2 years. I defy anyone to find an instance of my being abusive in comments to anyone since March of 2005.

If you're referring to my behaviour before then, well, I cry foul. I have done my time and paid my fines. I've made myriad apologies for my bad behaviour in the past and made amends by doing my utmost best to reform my behaviour.

My modus operandi for the past 2 + years has been this: I do my damndest to never say to anyone online what I would not say to his face.

And I do not lie.

Remaining honest is the simplest way to live; no lies to keep track of and no need to try to remember to whom it was that you told which lie.

So if you mean to say that the people who admire me but behave badly are merely emulating MY behaviour of the PRESENT, that is simply an untrue statement, because I do not behave badly toward other people at present. Regardless of my diary persona at DKos, my discussion behaviour is a solid B+ in Civility. And if you mean they're emulating my PAST behaviour, well, I don't think I can be held responsible for that; as I say, I have repented my past behaviour and if anyone considers herself an admirer of mine, she knows that full well. To really wish to emulate me, one would have to adhere to the credo of not saying anything online one wouldn't say in person -- NOT to the behaviour two years ago of the person one is supposedly emulating.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
I don't think you're abusive... (5.00 / 2)
...Or that you're not honest.  If anything you're too honest.  But being honest isn't the same as being truthful. I am saying you base a lot of your opinions on big leaps of assumption, and the absolute RIGHTNESS of your assumptions.  You are very honest about your opinions, but opinions aren't truth.

Also at times you are judgemental, reactionary, and defensive in your writing.  It has just always been a big turnoff for me in some of your more passionate diaries.  And not just you, I see the same qualities in your biggest admirers too and they amplify it.

Also, you're a really negative person online. And don't get me wrong, you're not even close to the worst in that department.  I have seen others, far more negative than you, leave that place and I have yet to miss that extra negativity.  That, really, is the biggeset reason why I'm glad you're not there. 

I also think you're very intellegent and very articulate and sometimes when you're in the right frame of mind you can write something utterly mindblowing.


[ Parent ]
oh and another thing... (0.00 / 0)
...regarding this:

I assure you and him -- on another day, under different circumstances, were you to meet in person and join a conversation about virtually any topic about which you both felt passionate but did not have anything to do with blogging or DKos or ME, you would likely get along famously.

That is probably true for most people I've met in political blogs.  Even someone like Armando, who I have had more than a couple of very heated "arguments" with, would probably be a fantastic person to talk to in real life.  None of this is real.  People don't act in blogs like they do in real life. It is just not worth getting bent out of shape over.


[ Parent ]
I threw ONE carcass in the dumpster (1.25 / 4)
Madman.

You executed yourself.


[ Parent ]
ONE? (5.00 / 3)
Total fucking bullshit.

Do you believe yourself when you say crap like that?


[ Parent ]
You are an unprincipled liar (1.33 / 3)
I know how many people I asked to be banned.

There answer is 1.

Liar.


[ Parent ]
No, Armando (8.67 / 3)
I can clearly recall you asking for the banning of a user named "Shadowthief" at DailyKos.

That's 2.

I'll bet you $20 if I did some research, I can find 10 quotes from you asking for the bannings of at least 10 separate DailyKos users.

Want to put some money on the table?  I don't like doing research for free, and I can buy an extra large pizza for my student assistants with the $20.

This story you have about only calling for ONE person's banning during your entire career at DailyKos is just not believable on its face. 

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"


[ Parent ]
You are wrong (0.00 / 0)
I will pay you $20 if you demonstrate me banning ShadowThief.

It did not happen.

You need not pay me a thing. I will not take your money.

And I do not mean my calling him a troll or abusing him. I mean ASKING for his banning.

NEVER HAPPENED. EVER.


[ Parent ]
You are a common liar (4.50 / 2)
and not even that good at it.

Just who do you think you're fooling? You were responsible for my banning for God's sake! Lies come very easily to you, as does projection of your faults onto others, but take this one elsewhere, it is pathetically laughable. This latest fabrication is a genuine embarrassment to your self-perceived greatness.

Here's some free advice, since you are definitely off your game. Give a little more thought into the shit you make up, even for you, lies as transparent as this one make you look absolutely ridiculous.


[ Parent ]
Who the fuck are you? (1.50 / 2)
I never heard fo you in my life.

And if you had a different name, tell it now and I'll prove you to be the stupid liar you are demonstrating yourself to be.

Is this hrh? IS this the repeat hrh lies about why she got banned?


[ Parent ]
Double or triple up on the Valium dude, (0.00 / 1)
you're cracking.

No one who saw you claim that you were responsible for the banning of only one DK user believed it. Nope, not even one single person believed you, because it was a wild fabrication, beneath even your normal quality of bulshit. If you believed it then we can only assume your narcissism has morphed into some sort of new amnesiatic or hallucinagenitic syndrome. Seek medical help immediately; these could be symptoms of a major physical disorder.

You will get the explanation from me you deserve, you are a liar, I know it first hand. Period.


[ Parent ]
Who gives a fuck what you believe (0.00 / 1)
You claimed I got YOU bannned and I asked you a question, who the fuck were you?

That you don;t answer it makes your claim imposiible to verify.

The modus operandi of inveterate liars.

That is you.


[ Parent ]
Why you care, of course. (4.00 / 3)
When you were a front pager you banned people fairly regularly, even what isn't in the HC at DK today confirms that, so your denial is just childish. When you became BTD, you exercised vicarious authority through the manipulation of a personal romantic relationship at DK to continue expulsions of users.

If you would like me to be very specific, nothing would please me more. All you need to do is give the word. Just so we're perfectly clear, your continuation of this bogus, baseless, deceit directed at my integrity will force me to defend myself with the facts. In other words, your permission for me to speak freely will be in the form of your continuation this malicious dialog, do you understand?

I've had enough. You lied when you said you only caused the banning of one DK member, you know you lied; everyone knows you lied, everyone. I happen to know from first hand experience, most others just observed. Drop it, or I'll defend myself.


[ Parent ]
Again with the lies (0.00 / 0)
And the Cult of MLW loves it.

Thanks again for proving everything I say about you and MLW.

Do you hae one piece of evidence for your lies> Of course not.


[ Parent ]
Armando, you are a fool. (0.00 / 0)
As in the drooling, idiotic kind, not the one on the hill.

Now I have to decide whether to feed your narcissistic addiction to drama with all the gory details. Since most of the particulars are public, it doesn't seem of much use to give you a stage for yet another histrionic breakdown. So the goal of watching you repeat, "You're a liar," thousands of times over to an audience who views your screams as the pathetic ramblings of a has-been wantabe, may be satisfaction enough.

It's not as if I have anything to prove. Even you know that you're just making shit up to have something to fight about.

OK. I'll leave it at this. You just keep calling me a liar, it does something for you.


[ Parent ]
What was your dkos name? (0.00 / 0)
I invite your discussing facts instead of lies.

LEt['s start with the first one, for the umpteenth time, wehat was your dkos name?

IF you want even tell me that, I can hardly take your threat to discuss actual evidence seriously.


[ Parent ]
Hey armando! (0.00 / 0)
How's it going? how you doing?  I can't help but be curious as who you axed but I have a feeling you'd never say. eh?

[ Parent ]
Madman in the marketplace (5.00 / 2)
I said so publically at the time and always after.

Unloike the current Administration, I believed in putting it out there and dealing with the reaction.

I do not say one thing in the back room and then lie about it in public like some of the current Admins at daily kos.

 


[ Parent ]
WHY did you axe Madman? (0.00 / 0)


Which rule did he break?

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
Libelled me and Markos (0.00 / 0)
He continually lied and said we were on the take from the Democratic Party.

That was the rule he broke. the libel rule.

BTW, I know this place hasa no rules, except for me to not be toooo mean to people.
Only one I ever saw you invoke was to tell me to cool it. And take a break. And then ask me back. And then forget you did.


[ Parent ]
Two questions (5.00 / 2)
1. You and Markos aren't on the Democratic Party's payroll? Who knew that?

2. Even if false, why is the suggestion libelous? It's not as if you'd act any differently if you were on the payroll.


[ Parent ]
Wow (10.38 / 8)
$25 words abound:

And you attracted people with a similar level of anger and paranoia who clammored to be in your orbit.  I did not like what you had become, nor the fawning sychophants who would attack anyone who were critical of you.

Clamored is spelled with one "m", BTW.

I admit that there is nothing that bothers me about the MSOC bashers (who I always laugh at when it is not enough to bash her over at Big Orange; they have to come *here* just to make sure she has their attention) more than the claim that everyone who comes to your defense is a "sycophant".  I've also heard the adjectives group-think, mindless, groupie and knee-jerk.  But at bottom the assertion is that each of the posters who have come here and consider this our home all think, act, and react like a single entity called "MLW", with Maryscott O'Connor our sun around which we revolve and without whom we would shrivel up and die.

Every time this happens, I ask the persons making such assertions to please show me, using my own words, how such language applies to me when I come to your defense.  So far I haven't received a straight answer.

Perhaps, Dawn, since you came all the way over here to make sure that MSOC knew how you felt (why, I don't know, exactly - seems you said nothing that you could not have said at DailyKOS without dragging all the rest of us folks who are not in the middle of this dust-up into it) you can show me the evidence you have that I, personally, am sycophant of MSOC's. 

Sycophant meaning "a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite."

I'm waiting.

Of course, anyone who has ever read my work and my disagreements with MSOC knows the word doesn't apply to me.  They know that it doesn't apply to the folks who are regular MLWer's either.  If you spent 45 seconds reading the actual work posted here -- particularly when members are in dispute -- you'd know that certainty.  I will continue to ponder depressingly why so many of those who have chosen to get down and dirty in this dust-up between MSOC and Markos on the side of Markos and DailyKOS seem to have no issue lumping every single MLWer into a group and ascribing to us the most unthinking knee-jerk motivations.  (Sort of like the Borg; we have all been assimilated.)

Maybe you haven't had a chance to actually read things here.  Maybe you have.  But either way, please explain how these words (clamoring and sycopahnt) are accurate descriptors of folks who are here at MLW based on some actual facts.  Quote people.  Please.  Pretty please.  Because otherwise you and those like you might wish to finally face the possibility that those words don't apply - no matter how much there are folks who love MLW and MSOC that also shake their head incredulously, occasionally with anger but more often with disgust, about both DailyKOS and Markos, just as MSOC does.  (I put myself at the top of that list.) And that the mere fact that we might have this in common is not evidence of "group think", contrary to the repeated bleatings I've read by some Kossacks who feel that they must rise to defend DailyKOS and Markos to the death no matter what he (or the many who have deemed themselves his proxy) does.

And do genuinely wish that all the folks like you that supposedly are not sorry that MSOC is gone from DailyKOS and who believe that MSOC should have been either forced to change or to leave DailyKOS before examine why it is that you have to come all the way over here to MLW just to make sure she knows that y'all feel that way.  Seems a little bit pot calling the kettle black when it comes to accusations of "an overdeveloped sense of your supreme judgment."

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
I'm sorry, what are you waiting for? (3.00 / 5)
Are YOU a sychophant?  I have no way of knowing that.  I don't know you.  I also wasn't talking to you so I don't know why you feel the need to be offended by my statement. 

I came here to address my statement to MSOC because, for what it's worth, I do respect her.  I have followed her writings for many years and I have become disturbed by some of the things I see from her lately (and from her most ardent supporters, some of which do strike me as an example of your above definition of sychophant). 

P.S. - $25? You really think I could get that much? Maybe I can finally afford a spellchecker.

Also, I would love to discuss this further but it's time to turn in.  Pleasant dreams one and all.


[ Parent ]
asdf (9.80 / 5)
I have become disturbed by some of the things I see from her lately (and from her most ardent supporters, some of which do strike me as an example of your above definition of sychophant).

*I* am one of MSOC's "most ardent supporters", from where I sit.  Certainly, I have been a quite public one.  When it comes to DailyKOS, I have been one of the more vocal people in pointing out both the nature of folks who routinely jump into her diaries to stir shit and the genesis of their increasingly angry angst about MSOC and her writing at DailyKOS (you can start your watch on the day that the WaPO article about MSOC and MLW came out), and calling out as stank the shit-stirring and insulting behavior.  I certainly have been none too quiet about my opinion of those Kossacks who feel license to take passive-aggressive potshots by insulting her mental health and implying that she's "crazy."  I've also challenged Markos' directly about these types of issues when it came to MSOC (and a couple of other MLW participants) and his (or his delegates) inconsistent and at times self-serving application of the "rules" (the most recent being the "You Fuck You Die" diary title censorship dust-up). 

Yet 5 seconds of reading would have told you that if any word does not apply to me, one of the earliest members here at MLW, it is "sycophant", even as I am one of MSOC's participants/friends.  40 more seconds would have told you that the word doesn't apply to any regularly participating member of MLW. 

I said something to you because I find it quite telling that folks who complain about MSOC and why she shouldn't do what she does seem to regularly call out and label MSOC's supporters *as a single-minded group*.  (You've finally used the word "some" in this response to me, but not previously.)  I wonder if the word would have drifted in at all had I not held your feet to the fire about the over-inclusiveness of your statements, the very thing you appear to be complaining about.  I know you were not personally speaking to me personally, but your post is an example of a phenomena I've been complaining about for some time, when it comes to MSOC's detractors.  So I used you as an example.

BTW that definition of sycophant isn't mine; it's from dictionary.com.)

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
you're killing me with this. (6.50 / 2)

s-y-c-o-p-h-a-n-t

For as often as that word is used in conjunction with me, you'd think it would be spelled correctly.

: )

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
I have always admired Shanikka's excellent spelling (7.00 / 1)
Perhaps we should coin a neologism:  "Psychophant".  Y'all figger out what it means.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
Maryscott (8.60 / 5)
I disagree with you.

I'd go into more detail why, but at the moment I suspect you're still angry about being banned. Personally, I believe the banning might work out for the best for you and My Left Wing.

I don't doubt Markos' warning asked you to delete the copyright infringement just as I believe you when you said you read over that part and didn't see it. Believe me, I've seen so many comments of mine misinterpreted of late to know how easy it is for people to misread something.

But on this diary, I really strongly disagree. I'll explain why later if you want, either in an email or in a comment, but I think just as many of your detractors use their opinion of you to cloud their vision, I think your anger at the banning is now coloring your view.


I value a woman's instinct in such matters. Sherlock Holmes


Hrmm. (10.00 / 1)
Why does it not exactly surprise me that DKos is turning fascist?

Perhaps someone ought to start a new community blog site and hopefully try to learn from DKos's mistakes.

Ah, well.  Their loss.  Don't let the bastards get you down.

I'm sure you've probably gotten this offer quite a lot since, but if you're looking for somewhere to post the things you'd be otherwise posting to DKos diaries, I'm looking for some guest writers.  : P


Ahem (7.50 / 2)

This IS that new community blog site.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
Then why petition to be reinstated? (11.00 / 1)
just sayin'

[ Parent ]
Why petition to be reinstated? One word: (6.00 / 2)

Principle.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
hehehe... (5.00 / 2)
...are you sure at heart you're not just a dailykos junkie like (some of) the rest of us?

[ Parent ]
MSOC - It doesn't matter. (0.00 / 0)
You will still write.
People will still read what you have to say.
If people want to know what's on your mind,
You are only a click away.

Peace.


How Mature! (1.33 / 9)
So you used someone else's account to go "neener neener neener".

You sure showed him!

Two words: Grow. Up.


You evidently lack basic reading comprehension skills. (0.00 / 0)

There was nothing remotely taunting in that post.

It was an honest reflection and assessment, a truthful recounting of my opinions and experience of coming to the position I now hold with regard to Daily Kos and Markos.

But thanks for sharing!

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
that's a gross oversimplification... (5.50 / 2)
...and very counter-productive.

[ Parent ]
I quit before I could get banned (9.67 / 6)
I don't know if I'm the longest-serving Kossack to bail, but my uid there (1142) is lower than that of both Armando and Madman in the Marketplace.  That means absolutely nothing, of course, other than I signed up before they did, which for some perverse reason seems to carry some cachet for Kossacks.

But I'd had it long ago with the groupthink and intolerance for truly progressive viewpoints.  When I got flamed and troll-rated by the Thought Police for daring to criticize Speaker Pelosi for her decision to take impeachment off the table, then I was hammered even more for quoting a survey that denigrated Christians (it wasn't my survey, but that didn't stop the Thought Police), well, I'd had it.

So, I wrote my valedictory (or my GBCW rant) yesterday, then I waved goodbye, and I'm done at the Great Orange Satan.

Make room for me in the Recovering Kossacks tent, please ...

Blast Off! - your home for progressive south Florida snark and schadenfreude!


I'm user 3834 on dKos (10.00 / 4)
I never got a troll rating there, but I'm basically a mild-mannered sort not in the habit of making waves.  I've had enough of all the bullshit, and I'm not going back. 

[ Parent ]
Happy Birthday (8.50 / 2)
I hope that it was a good day.  I'm working on an all-nighter and taking a 5 minute break, so wanted to make sure you knew I hadn't completely forgotten your day.

I also have said in another thread that I believe that you being banned may have been the best thing that happened to you, although the details of why I feel this will have to wait for a phone call or e-mail I can't have time to write until after my brief is filed tomorrow.

But that being said:  Hugs and Love.  Happy Birthday, my friend.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


This is Bullshit (7.25 / 4)
When you go some else's house you need to respect their rules and I do not care if thier rules are Dumb. It is their House.

I see a lot of the same things in different ways here that we complain about DK.  For example a lot of good Essays get no attention simply because they were not written by the Popular Kids. Let us work on ourselves before cast stones at DK.

Every Essay should read and if it merits it recommended. I am tired of hearing about the flaws of DK. I post here and not DK. This is my home and not DK. Please let us work on get liberals elected instead tearing down DK.

OK Rant Done.

"Israel's continued control and colonization of Palestinian land have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land."

- Jimmy Carter


it was bullshit that you got banned (7.80 / 5)
it was a letdown that it was over some fucking technicality.

and it is a royal motherfucking headache that this whole backandforth is still going on.

i am no fan of the site culture that has been set into motion, intentionally IMO, on daily kos, but i also worry that we are allowing this to consume our attention more than is productive, for this site or in general.

better at this point that we fosuc on doing things right, rather than allowing ourselves to get too fixated on what is wrong elsewhere. not that we should ignore it or refrain from speaking our minds and all, just that at a point it becomes a drag on our energy, our creativity and our time. and when that happens, it controls us in a sense as well.

enjoy your b-day, maryscott. and please don't let this jr. high-style BS consume you. there is so much more out there that is beautiful and horrific and interesting and important.

just my 2 cents.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat


wu ming... (0.00 / 0)

As I say in my opening comment in the new "Breaking, ban upheld" post, I intend to write one more essay that will include references to this pestilent topic and that will be the end of it from me.

I intend to write said essay (which, incidentally, I intend to craft carefully and in the old style, without vitriol or rancour) because I would like to make a final and complete record of this entire sad and sordid episode and then put it to bed.

I hope you will find it to your liking -- it will NOT merely be a rehash of plot, but, I hope, a thoughtful analysis and reflection on the many issues this episode has brought up, not only in me but, it would seem, for bloggers and blogging in general.

I can't say when I'll post it, but I intend to begin writing it tomorrow.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Yes. (9.00 / 2)
What wu ming said.

I had my last fling of the meta wars last night there; I'm done with all that. Time to move on for me, not from the site, but from the attempt to examine communities and their functioning with a critical and constructive lens. Now it's all about who is on which perceived side, no more, no less.

Meanwhile the political landscape continues to shift, in our direction I think, and new opportunities open themselves up every day. If a small coterie at dKos doesn't want to see that, fine, let's ally ourselves with the many still there, on the FP and in the diaries and comments, who are still allied with us in one form or another. There are MANY more of them than any of us realizes.


[ Parent ]
Certainly intentionally (6.00 / 3)
i am no fan of the site culture that has been set into motion, intentionally IMO, on daily kos

No need for it to be your opinion. The Kops glee to quoth chapter and verse of THE LORD saying unto me that the Kops are doing His bidding.


[ Parent ]
Maryscott (6.00 / 1)
I don't even know what to say.  I'm so sorry.  This blows big time.



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About MSOC
(Maryscott O'Connor,
Fairy Blogmother
of My Left Wing)


MSOC's Essays

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MEDIA SITES

* Air America Radio
* BBC
* Bloggermann
* Chicago Tribune
* HeroicStories
* L.A. Times
* N.Y. Times

* NewsHounds

* OpEdNews

* War Times
* Washington Post * Washington Times

OTHER INTERESTING SITES:

MSOC's Favourite Non-Political Sites
(My Favourite Guilty Pleasures...)

* Brian William Tie Report Archives *

* ~ Go Fug Yourself ~ *

* ~ PAJIBA ~ *


* Awful Plastic Surgery

* Chronic Babe

* Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

* Department of Nance
* Deus Ex Malcontent

* DListed

* Egotastic

* Go Fug Yourself

* Goop
* The Grammar Vandal
* I Don't Like You In That Way

* In Case You Didn't Know

* The Leaky Cauldron

* Mancub

* Manolo's Shoe Blog

* Kate McKinnon

* The Modern Gal
* Mollygood

* Rotten Tomatoes

* Rusty's Ventures

* The Sartorialist

* A Socialite's Life


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The Best of the Rest

* Afrobella

* Air America Radio

* Alcoholics Anonymous

* All Things Democrat

* All Things Motocross

* Aquarius Papers -- Astrology
* ArloNet
* Art Crit

* The Art of Elysium

* The Art Experience

* Auld Manhattoe

* Bane of Monotheism

* Burning Man
* Burning Violin

* Buy Blue

* Causes Rats in Laboratory Cancer

* Church Sign Generator

* Colbert Nation

* Comedy Central

* Creek Running North

* Current TV Blog

* Daily Kitten

* The Daily Show

* despair.com

*Disgrasian

* Downing Street Memos

* Dynamics of Cats

* Roger Ebert's Journal

* The Far Manor

* The Film Experience
* Flying Squid Studios

* Gallery of the Absurd

* Give Me My Remote

* Glossed Over

* Grendel's Kitchen

* Joe Hill Fiction

Hollywood, Interrupted

* Hooked on Drums

* Eddie Izzard

* Jazz Cooking

* Jack E. Jett

* Kate's Kitchen

* Kate's Studio - Kate Kretz

* Stephen King

Las Vegas Links

* Lobal Warming

* Lupus Support Group: MD Junction.com

*BILLMAHER

* Manolo Men

* Taylor Marsh

* Maxi the Marvelous Make-Up Artist

* Moby

* Michael Moore

* My Net Biz

* My Own Private I Dunno

* Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

The Onion

* Parvum Opus

* Pink is the New Blog

* Pink Tea

* Pop Sugar

* Posthumous Democrazy

* Pretty on the Outside

Public Secrets...

Radenko Fanuka

* Rhonda Records -- Wales

* Rod Online

* Rosie O'Donnell

* Safe Now

* Secular Sobriety

Silicon India

* The Simon

* Slowly Going Bald

* Soulforce

* Starry Starry Night

* Television Without Pity

* Temple of Bush

* Theology & Geometry

* This Isn't Writing, It's Typing

* Unitarian Universalist

* Vermilion Brain

* Weber Blue

* White Trash Mom

* Wil Wheaton

* Zod for President 2008


* MSOC's
Amazon Wish List


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Podcasts & Broadcasts We Like


* Air America Radio

* Blog Talk Radio /ePluribus Radio
"Don't Hijack My Thread"

* Doing My Part for the Left
(refinish69, MLW member)

* KPCC
(Southern California Public Radio)

* Pariah Island

* A Prairie Home Companion

* Velvel on Media




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