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"Good Riddance Attention Whore"

by: Maryscott O'Connor

Mon May 28, 2007 at 16:36:26 PM PDT





Dear Cindy,

I just read your "swan song" diary at Dkos, titled "Good Riddance Attention Whore."

I'm so sorry you've been treated so badly by people who should be your allies. They aren't really liberals, you know, those assholes who call you names and want to kick you to the curb because you won't play their Democratic reindeer games.

They're just another pack of imbeciles who really should never be allowed near an Internet connection. Imbeciles, bullies and poseurs; they're about as liberal as the Democrats they insist on supporting, in spite of betrayal after betrayal.

I know it's best you hang up your blogging hat -- too unhealthy to have dipshits like these yellow and blue dogs harassing you when you deserve every ounce of support each of us has to give. Bad enough the right wing attacks you constantly -- but to get it from both sides? Well, sadly, I know how you feel (on a far smaller scale). There is something appallingly disheartening about being turned on by "your side" when you start saying shit they don't want to hear.

But once you're finished with that last discussion, I hope you continue connecting with all those parents and vets who find hope and strength in speaking with you, or even just listening to you.




Maryscott O'Connor :: "Good Riddance Attention Whore"




So, you're not the "voice of the anti-war left" -- according to whom?  AT the very least, you A voice of the anti-war left -- a damned important voice.

The politicians who truly want this war endednow aren't just saying what they think we want to hear so we re-elect them and they can then return to fucking us all over every chance they get . And there ARE politicians who want the war ended now. And guess what? YOU were a huge part in making it "safe" for these people to speak against the war without fear of being called "unpatriotic" or some other such nonsense... Because YOU stood up first and took everything they could throw at you -- and not only weren't you defeated, you fucking WON.

When you began speaking out, you were spat on by everyone but liberals. I remember it, because I felt so proud of your tenacity and courage in the face of such callous inhumanity.

And now you're spat upon by many of the people who applauded you at first -- because you reject the cowardice of the Democrats in Congress, and to speak out against the Democrats is simply unacceptable to those who call themselves "liberal" when it is convenient, but revert to their true colours as conservative blue attack dogs as soon as they sense their centrist, appeasing, cowards' agenda threatened.


... when I started to hold the Democratic Party to the same standards that I held the Republican Party, support for my cause started to erode and the "left" started labeling me with the same slurs that the right used. I guess no one paid attention to me when I said that the issue of peace and people dying for no reason is not a matter of "right or left", but "right and wrong."

I know a little something about that kind of disillusionment, though not on the scale you must feel. I, too, am past the point of patience with these people. Frankly, if Al Gore doesn't enter the Democratic presidential primary and Hillary Clinton ends up winning the nomination, I am not altogether certain I'll be voting Democratic next year. I simply do not see the point.

This is my favourite part of your post:


I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party.

Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don’t find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland.

I am demonized because I don’t see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person’s heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat?


Brava, Ms. Sheehan. I only wish you would come over here and make MLW your blog-home. If only you knew of its existence; I am absolutely convinced you and MLW would be a perfect fit.

In closing, I want to tell you -- though of course you know it, you must know it -- that you are not alone. Not by a long shot. You have moved so many people, helped so many people -- you are a true American patriot and hero, and don't let anyone tell you any different.'

Sincerely,
Maryscott O'Connor




Tags: , , , , , , , , , (All Tags)
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They ran off another one. (10.48 / 25)

Why not just change the blog's name to Kos Republic and get it over with?

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

You forgot this part (3.33 / 12)
"I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group won’t work with that group; he won’t attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions."

Where have I seen this behavior before?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
Jake's Guilt... (9.57 / 7)

Tell me something -- do you think things at DKos are as they should be?

WHat do YOU think of DKos/Moulitsas/mob rule, etc -- all the things about which people have been complaining here? Do you see no validity to these complaints?

I'm interested to hear your reply, unless it's jus another variation on how stupid I am for allowing people to post whatever they wish here, including anti-Kos posts. If that's all you have to say about it, I'll just go look up one of your old comments.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
MSOC (5.62 / 16)
I don't believe I have ever stated that you are stupid for allowing people to post whatever they wish here.

My repeated (and repeated and repeated) opinion is that you are not just allowing it, you are encouraging it at every opportunity fueled by your own personal venom towards Markos and his behavior towards you.

Look at this post.  You ignore the pretty important paragraph I quoted in which Sheehan complains of the unending schisms within schisms on both sides of the Left and what do you write:

"They just ran off another one".

As if Dkos is the reason Cindy Sheehan is leaving the peace movement. 

If this was a GBCW, it was directed at the ENTIRE Left with all its warts, divisions, circular firing squads, policy and strategy disagreements AND the personal and personality conflicts that drive them.

IMO, your crusade against Kos is exactly the type of thing she is saying goodbye to.

Make this blog it's own thing by setting the example and doing your own thing.  CUT THE CORD.

Final note, take it for what you think it is worth:  Not everyone who has your best interests at heart are polite, nice or even friendly.  Has your experience not borne this out?

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
So. No answer to my questions. (9.00 / 1)

Got it.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
And you are surprised? (6.00 / 3)
The sun will also set in the West this evening, Maryscott.


[ Parent ]
Sad (2.17 / 6)
Troll rate away boys, blogmom is yours.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

[ Parent ]
Jake, you ARE a troll. (7.89 / 9)

You've been given many chances to prove otherwise, but you seem constitutionally incapable of posting ANYTHING other than your singleminded criticism of something YOU perceive as bad.

Well, when you refuse to engage in actual discussions except to spam the same comment in different sentence order over and over and over, when you derail ACTUAL discussions with that spam..

that spells troll to me, pal.

M-o-o-n that spells troll.



--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Go over my history (3.00 / 4)
I'm certainly not nice but my crusade began shortly after yours did.

It's ok.  I'm done here now.

"...and all in the land rejoiced...."

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


[ Parent ]
Good riddance, then. (7.00 / 9)

Congratulations on saying absolutely nothing for 2 months solid.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
Night of the Living Dead (3.00 / 3)
You're not auditioning for a role in Night of the Living Dead, are ya?

Go to sleep.  We promise to mock Jake in your absence. 


[ Parent ]
Got something to contribute to the discussion other than driveby ratings, 5Hearts? (6.00 / 2)
If so, speak up.

[ Parent ]
total fucking bullshit (3.33 / 3)
played this game before and the answer is "no"

If I have something to add, I will fucking add it, ok by you?

Not that it matters if it isn't.

You don't like the rating system,  talk to Maryscott.

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


[ Parent ]
So I take it the answer is no? (7.00 / 3)
Gee, I'm astonished that Maryscott yanked your admin privileges.  Flagrant abuse of the trust she placed in you and the lovely temper you've just displayed don't make a very good combination, do they?

And yes, I'm quite happy that your only "contribution" is driveby ratings.  I doubt that you could add much of substance to the comments.

Oh, and since you're a fan of the ratings system....


[ Parent ]
when we become... (6.75 / 8)
that which we are fighing, then that which we are fighting has won.

This looks and feels to me like exactly what I have come to loath about dKos.  It's open season on a poster who has annoyed or challenged the owner - and the pile on begins...

You've been given many chances to prove otherwise, but you seem constitutionally incapable of posting ANYTHING other than your singleminded criticism of something YOU perceive as bad

what part of the above definition of Jake's guilt as a troll matches up with what has been, to my knowledge up to now, the standard you set forth.

When you rate a comment "0 -- Worthless Troll Douchebaggery" you are not only calling the person who made the comment a troll, which is a pretty harsh charge in itself. What you are SAYING when you rate a comment with a zero is that the comment itself is SO hideous, SO inexcusable, SO despicable that it deserves, DEMANDS to be censored. That is what a "hidden comment" is: a censored post -- censored, presumably, because it is truly offensive and UTTERLY lacking in ANY merit WHATSOEVER.

yes - nearly, if not all, of jake's guilts posts here had been in counter to dkos bashing and yes, that's damned frustrating given the many very legitimate reasons to be frustrated with markos and dkos.  I've not seen, and certainly the two main comments in this thread, were not UTTERLY lacking in ANY merit WHATSOEVER.

shall other posters who only post on one topic or from one viewpoint - be it I/P or perhaps some hot air about balance and rest, also now be considered trolls? 

I find it particularly sad that this is happening in THIS thread - a great reaction to Cindy's departure from the Democratic Party (and, indirectly, dKos).  Apparently there's not room for disent either place anymore.

sigh.

for me the struggle is and always has been far more about chaning who's on top of the pile...  but the problems go far, far deeper than Kos, or the Dems.... it's involved in human nature

which has just been more than amply demonstrated.  I think part of my purpose in life is to stand in the middle of conflict and work for peace... not the mere absence of hostility, but actual peace... justice. wholeness.

pipe dream stuff....  but every now and then it happens.  Northern Ireland has made progress...  South Africa has made progress.  Places there was once "no hope.'

and one day maybe blogging will stop being an off key high school melodram and acutally make progress towards peace.  I managed to not post a Sabbath Time that turned into a GBCW... but two successive comments now sure sound like one.  time for a break at any rate.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
heh... (6.40 / 5)
let the record show that this poster with the annoyingly long user name has also now violated a technicality about margin race posts.  I can't deny it even if it wasn't intentional.  OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

;-)

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
Jakes Guilt (7.50 / 2)
I agree...with spoon ....let Jakes Guilt say what he has to say. I don't understand why his opinions should be called Troll opinions.

It's good to have someone whose critiical as a counterweight..

What this America needs in general is a resurgent Sovieit Union...to keep it honest...though that has it's disadvantages....it's better that no nation ....except Scandanavian ones be the only Super Power.

Norway should rule the world...or Sweden...Denmark....they should be the model for all nations...kind of....I think...

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Please don't get our hopes up (6.83 / 6)
But just in case you really are leaving...at long, long last...don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Once again, I'm at the mercy of someone I wouldn't let pick my nose!--John Lithgow, "Third Rock from the Sun"

[ Parent ]
Well (6.00 / 2)
I'm bored with the dKos suxorz!!~1! theme too... but maybe there are more productive ways to make that point, or start new conversations yourself, or just ignore the threads you don't care about.

[ Parent ]
why do you spend so much time ... (6.00 / 1)
on diaries about dKos scolding people for participating in them.  a lot of people _want_ to talk about it.  why are you so invested in telling others how they should react to the goings-on there?  your habitual scoldings are tantamount to telling others how they are supposed to feel.


[ Parent ]
Do Not Respond? (4.75 / 4)
This individual has but one line that he copies and pastes, Maryscott.


[ Parent ]
What is the noble cause, Mr. President (9.91 / 11)
Cindy Sheehan's presence is a reminder of that question.  That is the critical question.

I think that now that question should be put to the Vichy Democrats.  What is the noble cause, Bob Etheridge?  Mike McIntyre?  Jim Clyburn?  Heath Shuler?  Steny Hoyer?

Cindy Sheehan is not the voice of the anti-war left, never was no matter how much the anti-war left wanted to adopt her as its poster person.

Cindy Sheehan is the voice of the mother of Casey Sheehan, who wants to know a very basic thing about the war in Iraq?  What exactly was the noble cause that was so important that it could not wait?  Why exactly did George W. Bush send Casey and his unit and all of the other units to Iraq?

The resistance of the President to honestly answering that question is the answer.  The cause was ignoble.

The action of the Democrats can mean only one thing.  Democrats understand that George W. Bush would let troops die without armor and supplies and equipment and ordnance if Congress actually cut off funding for the war.  Let that sink in.  Bush's standoff position was, "I'm crazy enough to let troops die if you cut off funding.  I'll do that rather than let Congress try to limit the powers of the unitary executive imperial president."  We don't have troops in Iraq.  We have people in uniform who are the hostages of George W. Bush, his safe passage to completing his term.

Cindy, you don't need to be the voice of the "anti-war left" whatever that is.  You are not a movement.  You are a presence.  A presence that continues to disturb the powers-that-be regardless of their ideology.  A presence that disturbs both the establishment and the disestablishment.

Thank you for just being Cindy Sheehan.  Do what you judge Casey would want you to do.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em


Democrats Despise the Troops. (3.25 / 4)
You give the dumbocrats too much credit. They don't care about the troops...they care about the stature...the status that their position gives them and the fun they have with it.

The modern politician is a millionaire or billionaire looking for something fun to do. They are'nt knowledgable or interested in politics...it's just for fun.

Whaddya think Bush is ....he's in it for the fun.....he's not a serious person...it's a board game...he's having fun...

Democrats arent' afraiid Bush would let the troops die....They are afraid the corporatiions won't give them the money because the press will portray them as being anit american.

I don't know where you got that Tar heel.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Unlike you and your Democrats (8.00 / 2)
I know some Democrats who still have some common decency.  Not all Democrats take the same position.  Not all Democrats have the same motives.

Your brush is a bit too broad.

Not everywhere is as compromised as Chicago.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em


[ Parent ]
Tarheel (0.00 / 0)
When I say Dumbocrats I'm not talking about voters....I'm talking about politicians who are in office.

My brush is not too broad....

But I love your last line about Chicago....it's probably true.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Democratic Politicians (0.00 / 0)
Not all Democratic politicians take the same position.  And not all make their votes for the same motives.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

[ Parent ]
Name Some (10.00 / 1)
But there are only a handful.....the older ones...no new ones....name some new ones that are "liberal".....Where is there a new John Conyers...Russ Feingold....

They wouldn't even let Paul Hackett run....

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
You just did (0.00 / 0)
Name some, you say--and then you name some yourself. John Conyers and Russ Feingold.

Then you say, name some new ones.  Paul Hodes. Patrick Murphy. Jerry McNerney.  There are three quick ones -- all supported by the netroots.  There are more.  There are a lot of back-benchers who take "liberal" positions based on their personal values and the wishes of their constituents.

You are under an illusion if you think that Paul Hackett is "liberal".  He's a good candidate and he is against this war as veteran of this war.  But "liberal" in whatever sense that means?  I think he is too complex for labels.

What failed in the Democratic part is the will to win the votes that matter.  Why is simple.  Their strategy was too cautious.

As for big-money donors, a lot of big-money donors to Democratic candidates have been long against the war.  The pro-war donors have been donating exclusively to Republicans until November 2006 only because Democrats were irrelevant.  That is changing, but only the Steny Hoyer types of Democrats are moving to accommodate the big money guys.  I think that the House needs a new Democratic majority leader.  The best way to accomplish that would be to get 150,000 in the Maryland suburbs of DC to dump Hoyer for a more principled progressive Democrat.  Then most likely, John Murtha would become majority leader.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em


[ Parent ]
Nobody "lets" or "doesn't let" you run. (0.00 / 0)
You either collect the signatures to get on the ballot, or not.

Democrat for US Senate, 2006 and  2012. (Wisconsin)



[ Parent ]
I don't speak of individual Democrats, but of the party (9.14 / 7)
The Democratic Party as an institution is broken.

There are still individual Democrats, like my own representative, freshman Congressman Jerry McNerney, who voted to end this war.  These are people of integrity, decency, and honor.

Unfortunately, there are too few of them, and they are working within a party whose leaders are corrupt and cowardly.

Senator Kohl of Wisconsin sold his anti-war vote for some homegrown pork--so did a lot of Democrats.

Fuck 'em.


[ Parent ]
The Party? (0.00 / 0)
The Party is individual Democrats whose elected leaders are spokespersons and strategists on behalf of those individuals.  If there is a problem, it is either with the leadership or the way that the leadership is selected from rank-and-file Democrats.

If these selection mechanisms are broken, it's up to individual Democratic Party members to pressure to have them fixed.

The reality of politics remains.  In order to have influence in Congress, you must persuade 150,000 or so voters to elect someone who represents your principles.  Established parties are efficient ways of mobilizing those voters; that more than anything else is why third parties have trouble getting traction.  Third parties don't have already existing institutions and infrastructure for campaigning.

As for the pork, the original title of the bill was Supplemental Appropriations to the 2007 Budget.  There was a bunch of stuff in that bill that needed to be done.  I had no idea that Senator Kohl was particularly anti-war in the first place - that he had a anti-war vote to sell.  It always seemed to me that he voted for the first Supplemental Appropriation bill because of farm relief and voted for the restrictions on Bush's use of supplemental funds for Iraq only because it was in the farm bill.  Wisconsin is a more conservative state than most people imagine (Madison to the contrary).

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em


[ Parent ]
Kohl (0.00 / 0)
His vote for Reid/Feingold would suggest he's genuinely turned against the war. Just not his top priority.

Democrat for US Senate, 2006 and  2012. (Wisconsin)



[ Parent ]
Just for your mindless pissing (0.00 / 0)
In Huber's Memorial Day thread.

[ Parent ]
Cindy Sheehan (9.75 / 8)
Cindy Sheehan says things very simply. This is not complex. The war is a waste.

Groups like Move On. org are absurd caricatures of peace groups who actually avoid the war as much as possible...becasue it's too hot. Move on. Org and Dalily Kos are horrific promoters of making everything vague.

Air America has Al Franken supporting Bush's war effort....I know...I don't know what I'm talking about.....NO! You haven't heard....

Juan Cole was never opposed to the war and only recently has backed off on suggestions that air power be used instead of american troops and using African mercenaries to fight the war.

When examined there is nothing but ambivalence in the so called "lliberal" left as exhibited by Daily Kos's founder Markos Moulitsas and his 6 month interview process with the CIA who are currently trying to destablize Iran a nation who the U.S. is fighting and at the same time building as a power in the region with their support of Shiites.

It's all so crazy...and then Cindy Sheehan comes along with her nasal voice. blue jeans and messy hair... and just says very simply that this is all pretty crazy....and nobody really listened...they made fun of her because she didn't look the part....I'm so glad she was just herself.

A breadth of fresh air....too bad there wasnt enough of it. We are all going to suffocate....look at the candidates....working inside the system no longer works..

Mitt Romney will be the next president. He has the CIA behind him. They love him....there's so many mormons in the CIA. This is their chance to get theiir boy in. Plus he's so handsome....he looks the part....

Fuck it.

Cindy Sheehan is doing the right thing. There's too much bullshit to wade through. All they want to do is destroy her because she spoke the truth.

America doesn't want to hear the truth.


Stu Piddy....a free range human


So...MSOC and others...at what time did you read that post? (7.00 / 5)

Because at 8:05 PM EDT, all that I am getting when I click that link is a big blank page.

Try this one.

It seems to be working.

And while you are at it...read her post on today's Counterpunch.

An Open Letter to the Democratic Congress. Why I Am Leaving the Democratic Party

From the heart, and right on target.

Later...

AG


Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


Daily Kos has been having some site problems today (10.00 / 2)
The diary has not been removed.  The link at Daily Kos is working now (17:19 PST, 20:19 EST).

It should be noted that it was Cindy Sheehan herself who wrote the diary, "Good Riddance, Attention Whore".

Sheehan is rightfully resentful and, quite frankly, I can see she's burnt out.

From Sheehan's Kos diary:

I am deemed a radical because I believe that partisan politics should be left to the wayside when hundreds of thousands of people are dying for a war based on lies that is supported by Democrats and Republican alike. It amazes me that people who are sharp on the issues and can zero in like a laser beam on lies, misrepresentations, and political expediency when it comes to one party refuse to recognize it in their own party. Blind party loyalty is dangerous whatever side it occurs on. People of the world look on us Americans as jokes because we allow our political leaders so much murderous latitude and if we don’t find alternatives to this corrupt "two" party system our Representative Republic will die and be replaced with what we are rapidly descending into with nary a check or balance: a fascist corporate wasteland. I am demonized because I don’t see party affiliation or nationality when I look at a person, I see that person’s heart. If someone looks, dresses, acts, talks and votes like a Republican, then why do they deserve support just because he/she calls him/herself a Democrat?

Outstanding.


[ Parent ]
ME ME MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (9.00 / 5)
I don't know if she's burned out...I think thats a kind of demeaning phrase...though you probably didn't intend it to be..

I think she is seeing after actual first hand experience that the Democratic party is not real....it's illusory and offers nothing...and that there are no takers for a peace movement...

Nobody really cares about the troops enough to organize themselves around the idea of protest like Cindy did.....

Move on is bullshit...it's a money making orgainization .....they don't want to take chances...

It's the times we live in.....ME ME ME permeates everything.

Sheehan isn't a MEEEEEEEEEE person.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
I do think she's burned out,, aka disillusioned (6.60 / 5)
I've seen it before.  She's been at this for three years now, Stu, and after all that time...she gets knifed in the back by the Democratic majority in Congress that she and others like her helped get elected.

No, I don't mean to demean Cindy Sheehan at all.  Sorry if it came out that way.  I just sense that she's given all she had to give to this movement, and is walking away from the utter futility of trying to get the Democrats to actually act like a political opposition instead of the other wing of the Republican Party.


[ Parent ]
Cindy Sheehan resigned from the Democratic Party (10.14 / 14)
For a very good reason.

The woman gave her son, Casey--her son, flesh of her flesh--to the Army, and he was killed.

Cindy Sheehan will never see Casey Sheehan again.  When Casey was killed in Baghdad on 4 April 2004, everything he had, and everything he was ever going to have, was taken away from him, and taken from his family.

If you have to earn the right to speak out in this increasingly fascist country, then Cindy Sheehan sure as hell paid her blood-and-flesh speaker's fee.

Cindy Sheehan is a dangerous radical, make no doubt about it.

She is a dangerous radical because she asked a question:

Why?

Why did my son die?  Why are we in Iraq?  Why did the President send him there?  Why are we staying there?  Why did the President and his minions lie to the people and to the Congress about Iraq having "weapons of mass destruction"? 

Why?

When Cindy Sheehan asked "why?" of the Republicans, she was a hero to anti-war Democrats.

But then Cindy did something unforgivable:  She asked "why?" of the Democrats.  Cindy held the Democratic Party to the same standard as the Republicans, and asked them "Why?"

Why aren't you doing more to end the war?  Why didn't you introduce a binding resolution to establish a timetable for withdrawal?  Why didn't you vote to pass a non-binding resolution for withdrawal?  Why didn't you vote to fund a withdrawal instead of a war?

Why?

The Democratic Party as an institution doesn't want to answer those questions.  DailyKos, as a minor cog in the Party machinery, doesn't want her to answer those questions.

And now I have a question:

Why?

Why are our so-called allies in the "anti-war" movement turning against us?  Why is party loyalty to the Democrats more important than moral and intellectual principles?  Why is supporting the Democratic Party more important than the lives of the Iraqis and Americans who have been killed, and who are going to get killed?  Why aren't we mad as hell at the Democratic Party's refusal to use its majority in Congress to end the occupation of Iraq?  Why are we mad at Cindy Sheehan, who has tried for years to hold Bush and a warmongering Congress to account?

Why?

(Oh, and by the way:  Every movement has a face, someone who is better known than the others.  Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was one of the most prominent leaders of the civil rights movement, but not its ONLY leader--yet he got more attention than the others because of his eloquence.  That's the way movements work, idiots. One might well ask why Markos Moulitsas gets more attention than other bloggers who are far more deserving.  Hm....maybe because he shamelessly whores himself to the Dems and pimps out anybody foolish enough to associate with him? Just a thought, you evil motherfuckers.


Because she won't stop asking it (9.00 / 7)


[ Parent ]
Or rahter, wouldn't stop (10.00 / 2)


[ Parent ]
or Can't Stop!!! (0.00 / 0)


Photobucket"Money?"

[ Parent ]
Why should she stop? (0.00 / 0)
When she has never gotten a straight answer to the question from the people in power of whom she asked it?

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
Splitters (8.00 / 4)
I wonder how much of the splitting up is caused by agents provocateurs and the pressure from "higher up" to "look serious" to people who need "look serious" to others who take their orders from the corporate elites.

On the anti-war activism the biggest split was between eg ANSWER and other groups and was definately caused by the other groups wanting to be "taken seriously" by the proxies of the very people they were supposed to be fighting.

If indeed the explanation for the actions of the Democrats is cowardice then it is entirely representative of their supporters.  But I doubt it is cowardice at that level.  Democrats simply don't disagree with Bush over the need for the Iraq war.  Not more than a handful of them anyway.

But even after time and again having these facts displayed people will utterly refuse to support the few people that represent them (eg Kucinich) because they might not be "taken seriously" -- meaning they are afraid of not sucking up to their enemies enough.

Why not take things to the final logical extent and just vote for Bush?  You know, like the Democrats just did?  Cut out the middle man and ensure that everyone knows just how "serious" you are.


I'm sorry Cindy (9.50 / 8)
Thank you.

It seems one of the main goals of the netroots is to keep us from taking to the streets.

If Abbie Hoffman were around today he would be dismissed and derided as "childish" and a "distraction" and "harmful to the left". Any activist that calls the Democrats on their betrayals is called the same.

The netroots is terminally infected with Broderism towards the Democrats and yet goes Coulterist on anyone who dares to speak out.

We are in an age where true dissent is nearly impossible.

Thank you so much for what you have done. You did good.


Abbie (10.00 / 2)
went through this twice.

In '72, he sought to bring the Yippies into the Democratic Party, publishing "Vote." Others, myself included, felt we were both not helpful as an overt (D) presence, and could accomplish more shifting the (D) consensus as hardasses on he outside. We took the name Zippies as a summer theme through the '72 Conventions. That fall, Abbie dropped out of politics and into Quaaludes. Following a coke bust he disappeared, resurfacing a decade later.

By '85 he was working with student groups on rebuilding a student movement, as well as proseletyzing use of the nascent net (Peacenet/Greenet) as an organizing tool. Here there were problems with the Progressive Student Network, a catspaw of a Maoist Party who considered themselves already "The Student Movement" tm ,as well as national offices of many orgs nervous about the decentalizing effects of many to many communication.

Abbie and Jerry's "Yippie/Yuppie debate" tour became a target of the PSNers, who regu;larly accused Abbie of heineous sexism largely over stuff Jerry had published 20 years earlier. On what proved the last stop of the tour, here in Madison, one of the PSN guys pelted Abbie with raw bacon as a "sexist pig," to impress his "Feminist" girlfriend.

We spent the following evening together, he  was seriously bummed, took his life not long after.

Democrat for US Senate, 2006 and  2012. (Wisconsin)



[ Parent ]
I saw Abbie (0.00 / 0)
at a small venue in S.Cal doing standup. Man was I sad when I heard the news that he had died. How do we get that kind of fire back and keep it from being put out?

[ Parent ]
Cindy Sheehan did a good job in coming out and asking the right questions (0.00 / 0)
after the death of her son, Casey, in Iraq 3 years ago.  While I definitely agree with her on this position, it's also true that my positions on some other things are positions that  Cindy Sheehanprobably would not agree with, but that's the way things go somtimes, I guess.

Ahhhh....Life goes on.

In 1920 the 18th Amendment (10.00 / 2)
was passed.  9 years later the stock market crashed because the government was no longer collecting taxes on liquor and had no largess to dispense.  The Capitalist Party, both it's Republican wing and it's Democratic wing, are in crisis today.  The people of the republic are instructing their representatives to do things for them.  Like end bush's war in Iraq and establish a single-payer universal health care system and get  Israel's mind "right".  The politicians are used to giving orders, not getting them and are very confused.  Cindy's tired of being a target.  Normal people eventually get sick of being  abnormal  and that time has arrived for Cindy.  I just hope the house she bought up the road from bush continues  to be a part of the movement.  At least until bush is unable to visit Texas any longer.  Peace

I am heart broken- yet not at all surprised. (11.00 / 1)
I have come to the conclusion that the DLC and all them Dogs with Power are trying to push out the True Progressive Liberals: The New Deal Democratic Party members… and we will be left with two parties that are both owned By the Corporations that put them in Office… 

I was raised with the Strong Conviction that we change the parties, We The People are The Party! Until We The True Left Stand Up and Shout Down the milk toast roll over belittling Middle – They will Win!

I wish you all the Best Cindy, you take this much need rest~ kiss your two living children and when you feel better maybe the rest of us will have found out what the hell we are going to do.

I think we have to choice-
1) Fight and drag the Powers pulling them kicking and screaming to back to the Left and are Values
2) Start a New Party that Represents us (takes money only from us) and Lessons.

Photobucket"Money?"


msoc -- "hanging up her blogging hat"? (9.00 / 1)
I think she just gave up on the whole fucking system. Rock on CS, I say.

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


ogh, and ...not about YOU! n/t (0.00 / 0)


Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


[ Parent ]
Thought you weren't going to comment here (6.00 / 2)
Other than to insult me.

If you don't like me calling you on it, file it in the very large category of Things You Can't Do A Damn Thing About.


[ Parent ]
whatever gave you that idea, dear? (0.50 / 2)
feel free to "call me" on whatever you like -- you can poke away with your pointy stick infinitum, me caring about your bullshit? Put it in *your* file of Things you Cannot Make Happen.

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


[ Parent ]
Simplexity, don't leave yet. (8.25 / 4)

(okay, I got up, but I AM napping still)

I would like to have a community discussion about ALL of this.

Just not tonight, I have to sleep.

I, too , am tired of the anti-Kos posts. Critical mass and all that jazz.

I won't defend my troll rating of Jake's because I think once you post the same ocmment seventy-three times, it's SPAM, damn it.

But please note, he has not been banned.

Let up please discuss this come morning -- I have to go back to bed, but I didn't want you to GBCW on me without knowing I was already halfway there anyway.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


I'm not one for hard lines... (7.29 / 7)
but I did actually skip posting ST this week becuase everything I wrote - about prayer and about energy - sounded to me like a GBCW and I, humorously, didn't have the energy to sort that out....

had been silent, to my knowledge even with ratings, since the 22nd... and then tonight I posted two more notes that sure sounded like I'm leaving...  it's clear to me that I'm largely wasting my energy.  IN a way perhaps what I aspire to be is more needed than ever, but at least right now I can't pull it off and I've got too much going on in my life to really put the time into being more than a drive by like I have been for months.... and one can't really be a bridge builder on a drive by basis - which means I've failed in a way.

but I do see exactly the same things happening here that happened there... and that's sad.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
Well, let's cut to the chase (4.00 / 8)
You're a frontpager at Street Prophets. 

Street Prophets is a subsidiary of DailyKos.  He links to it.  He helped get it started.

The continued existence of that site depends on Kos' good will and linkage.

So you defend Jake who attacks MSOC for criticizing Kos.  Again, the sun sets in the West today.


[ Parent ]
I'm also a front pager (4.67 / 3)
HERE.

since day one.  but that doesn't matter - I'm one of THEM... I'm associated with the blue version of the great orange satan.

MSOC - have your community discussion.  I hope it goes well.

but my energy is clearly better spent elsewhere right now.  Sorry.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
Sigh--ok Simplexity, here you go.... (4.00 / 4)
So:

Proposition 1:  According to you, I'm a newcomer who doesn't know Jack Shit (thanks for the condescension, by the way).

Proposition 2:  Even though I just got here, I'm responsible for running you off MyLeftWing.

Observation:  Quite odd how some people chose to take this diary, which is supposed to be about Cindy Sheehan and the way she feels betrayed by the Democrats, and made it all about themselves and how they're not happy that things aren't just the way they used to be, when MyLeftWing and DailyKos were politically closer and its two proprietors were cordial towards one another.

Tip:  MyLeftWing didn't change, DailyKos did.  Maryscott didn't denigrate and ban Kos, he denigrated and banned her.

Ok, NOW I'm done.  With allies like you, I don't need enemies.


[ Parent ]
Alias (10.00 / 3)
Simplexity is a kind and wise man.  Perhaps he brings needed reflection to the idea of tolerance to the site.

As I read it, all he did was say that perhaps we become the part of dKos we despise when we applaud running someone (Jake in this case) off.

Please don't judge him so harshly.  It isn't tenure that made him popular, it was kindness.  Simplexity, meet Alias.
Alias, meet Simplexity.

Can you start fresh, guys?

sighhhhh


[ Parent ]
How About (10.67 / 9)
Proposition 3:  Jake's Guilt made a legitimate comment about his perspective.  BlogMom disagreed.  You jumped in the middle of their discussion to argue that BlogMom's opinion was, in essence, "End of Discussion", thereby taking what would have otherwise been a dialogue and turning it into a dustup.  Which then It's Simple expressed his view of.

Here's a Tip for You:  Nobody who is a true MLWer really should give too much of a shit one way or the other about As the DailyKOS Turns.  I've expressed my opinion about that subject before, to BlogMom herself.  I do wish folks would just get over it, and move on.  I read all the comments in Cindy Sheehan's original GBCW diary at DailyKOS and nowhere do I see evidence that DailyKOS had any role in "running her off".  Given this, it is the subject of DailyKOS that has hijacked and derailed this diary, much as I love BlogMom (and she knows that I do.)  And I continue to hope and pray that my friend moves on from it, and uses what occurred between herself and Markos as something productive for herself.  Which 24-7 DailyKOS bashings simply are not.  Destruction and negativity when there truly is nothing to say is productive for absolutely no one.

All IMHO and YMMV, of course.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
A true MLWer? (6.00 / 2)
Interesting turn of phrase.  I thought you were arguing against "loyalty tests" for blogs.

As for Jake's Guilt being a troll:  Maryscott stated, quite cogently, her reasoning.  If you had taken the trouble to read Jake's past 30 comments, you'd see that they all the same.  Jake is into copy-and-paste. He has one subject that he introduces into every diary no matter what the actual content of the diary.

As for "Simplexity":  I found his post dripping with condescension, with the "How dare you speak to me that way, I've been here forever" attitude.  That sort of thing doesn't go down well with me and never has. 

So make up your mind:  Either we are all equals on this blog or we need a designation for VIBs (Very Important Bloggers) who, apparently, are self-selected and self-identified.  And of course VUBs (Very Unimportant Bloggers) like, oh, me, will be forbidden from addressing the VIBs unless spoken to and so forth.  We can fill countless hours arguing over rules, protocols, procedures...it'll be just like DailyKos.


[ Parent ]
Shanikka's comment (6.00 / 3)
a "true MLWer" refers to behavior, I think, not any kind of ideational "litmus test". In other words,

"Don't be a schmuck."---MSOC

Nothing there about "loyalty tests". Just acting like a polite human being.

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
Thank You Mirrim (7.00 / 2)
"Don't be a schmuck" indeed pretty much sums it up.  Although I probably would have put it in more sexist language.  Bad bad me.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather

[ Parent ]
Excuse You (9.33 / 3)
I can't help but note that you said all that substantively-void blather accusing me falsely about making this about status, but responded not at all on the merits of what I said - which is that you, by jumping in, were shit-stirring where no shit needed to be stirred and where such stirring actually furthered, not lessened, a derailment of the diary.

Perhaps you want to address that?

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
And you are? (9.50 / 2)
I see we have an outbreak of VIB syndrome aplenty here.

Of course, by attacking me YOU are not adding to the "shit stirring",as you like to state it.

It's Simple If You Ignore the Complexity didn't start the shit stirring by adding a comment that had nothing to do with the topic of the original diary.

Nope, because Simplexity is a VIB.

Since this has devolved into a DKossian discussion of The Rules, here's some Rules as far as I can divine them:

Rule:  Whatever a VIB does (and we all know who they are) is, by definition, OK.

Rule:  Whatever a VUB does (and we all know who we are) is, by definition, subject to condemnation and criticism by a VIB.

Thanks.  I do enjoy a good Rules clarification.


[ Parent ]
alias... (4.67 / 3)
its more like
1: If you call names on someone you don't even know, you will be considered schmucky.

2:  If you are usually nice, you may get a pass whn you're schmucky cause we figure you are having a rare bad day.

That human behaviour, not blog behaviour.


[ Parent ]
Go Forth (0.00 / 0)
And continue your "I know you are but what am I?" approach. It's quite telling.

We're done.  I have no time to waste on idiocy, when you won't respond on the merits of what I said about what *you* did (instead of all your many reasons about why it's someone else's behavior that should matter.)

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
Sigh (6.00 / 2)
Is that the 11th Commandment? 

Yeah, quite obvious we have nothing to talk about.  We are of different social classes, etc.


[ Parent ]
Don't flatter yourself... (9.00 / 3)
Proposition 2:  Even though I just got here, I'm responsible for running you off MyLeftWing.

Simplexity's discontent seems cumlative as he explains it.

Now. Why don't just get off his back?

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL


[ Parent ]
"Why don't just get off his back?"...s/b (0.00 / 0)
Why don't YOU just get off his back?

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

[ Parent ]
GBCW ~ Good Bye Cruel World (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
resetting a margin race comment (9.00 / 1)
my apologies for that.  Here's a spot to react, as you wish, to my last couple posts in this thread challenging the declaration of Jake's Guilt as a "troll"

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.

Maryscott already gave her reasons (3.00 / 6)
And I agree.

No need to pursue the matter further.  Waste of time, and a derailing of this diary...that wouldn't be your intent, would it?


[ Parent ]
um.... (9.00 / 5)
y'know. I'm a big boy. 

I'm going to presume you've been here since long before May 14th, I'm not seeing an introduction that explains a prior history - and it really doesn't matter either way.  but I do have to laugh...  been a front pager from day one and now I'm accused of intending to derail this thread....  yep.  I'm just a concern troll here....  love it.  absolutely love it.  How is that not exactly what's happening at dKos?

you rated my comment in skippy's diary as "total fucking bullshit"
does that really mean you think everything I said in that comment was bullshit?  really?  wow.  down with the dissenters!

Alias Mister Smith - you're an example of exactly what I was talking with MSOC about.  This blog is engaged in behavior that strikes me as parallel to everything we dislike about dKos.  If you haven't - please be sure to read the community information link at the right.  Seeya

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
Length of time on a blog means what? (2.43 / 7)
We should put stars besides people's names, I think, to designate them as VIPs...that way newbies like will know to shut up.

To echo the sentiments of your friend 5Hearts:  You don't like the ratings system, talk to the proprietoress.

Oh, and I notice you didn't address the very obvious link between Kos' patronage and the continued existence of Street Prophets.  But then again, it behooved you to turn the issue into a personal attack on me, rather than answer me.

I'm done with you.


[ Parent ]
what was I supposed to address? (10.33 / 6)
yes - Markos helped PastorDan start the site.  It's still hosted there. 

I, having met and befriended PastorDan on dKos, have been a front pager there since it started.

Is that a crime?  Does that exclude me from posting here?  At what point was I supposed to chose my loyalty - I missed that memo or email.

I did not reference my length of time as some sort of trump card - but when one presumes to speak for the community and create and enforce norms - when one presumes to insinuate that another is merely trying to be disruptive, one's length of membership and relationship with the blog matters.

clearly my role as a front pager at SP matters to you and is grounds for suspicion - but my similar role here offers no counter? 

by all means - be done with me.  I wish you well. 

Dividing and purging all nonconformist elements always works so well for a movement - especially when they're not even in power yet.

what a waste

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
What part of "I'm done with you?" didn't you comprehend? n/t (2.29 / 7)


[ Parent ]
wow... (6.00 / 8)
just wow

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.

[ Parent ]
more to the point (9.00 / 4)
how is your reaction to and treatment of me here substantially different than what Cindy (and MSOC) where decrying in their posts?

I welcome your participation here.  You seem to want to drive me away as I'm somehow allied with evil dKos forces

whatthefuckever.

I'm pretty sure this is not what MSOC is wanting MLW to be - but I'm not sure even that matters anymore.  Rather ironic really.

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
((simplexity)) (8.80 / 5)
I have been "in the weeds" lately with my own stuff, and not been on much this past week or two.

But I think you add balance and general kindness to everything you touch.

Think in terms of ministry, perhaps; becvause there are some deaf ears, does one quit trying to do good for people?  Or perhaps some words passed out have no meaning for a person until weeks later?

Some things are seeds... you plant then and hope they find fertile soil and all you can do is wait to see if they grow, my friend.

Don't give up on this community, I beseech you!

sighhhhhhhhh


[ Parent ]
It's Simple (9.22 / 9)
For what it is worth I feel you.  Jake's Guilt is not a troll, and I understood both where he is coming from with his comment (a legitimate one, IMO) as I understand where you are coming from.  Your bona fides (i.e. not a troll, not ever) are well established, at least with me. Anyone that tries to make any sort of nefarious suggestion about Street Prophets and your participation in it merely because Markos sponsored its launch is truly reaching to the bottom of the substantive well, indicating the lack of merit in and of itself. 

So I'm cosigning with Weeping.  Don't sweat the small stuff.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
Derail this... (7.50 / 4)
I don't know what your beef is with Simplexity, other than he posts at DKos. If that's the sum total of you mean-spirited, dismissive, caustic commentary, please know that I for one disagree with you.

I've had my moments with Jake's Guilt, but as far as I'm concerned, he has held up a mirror to this community in this essay.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL


[ Parent ]
"and eats up the people who try to help it" (0.00 / 0)
Fortunately, Ms. Sheehan,

Has not met the really "pure left". They'll pivot on a dime and devour you faster than you can say "brunch".

And the Democrats and the "left" do not win elections.

Why, imagine that.


Out of the box (10.00 / 3)
Cindy stepped out of the box, she is now free.  She has done what she was sent to do, she is the white in the red, white, and blue.

Cindy is a good woman (10.33 / 3)
I don't think she ever intended to be a heroine or a spokesperson for the anti-war movement.  People latched on to her then kicked her to the curb the minute she went "off message", as if she had no right to speak about anything but the war in Iraq. And now people are biting at her ankles like fleas because she's decided the Democratic Party isn't right for her. 

Imagine loving someone so much and being so angry over his senseless death that you are willing to subject yourself to that bullshit day in and day out.  I wouldn't have had the strength to do it at all.  I hope that she will be able to find peace with it all and live a happy life.  This is certainly one person who deserves it.


I'm so sorry this has happened to her. nt (9.00 / 5)


Commander Jeff Huber, U.S. Navy (Retired) writes from Virginia. Read his weekday commentaries at Pen and Sword and ePluribus Media.

((( Peace To Cindy))) (9.00 / 3)
Let us not lose MSOC to these vipers....

On the Merits (9.64 / 11)
I personally read Cindy Sheehan's diary for what it was:  sick and tired of being sick and tired.  Can't win for losing sick and tired.  I therefore do not think she will be back, particularly as I understand that she has also expressed that she will be leaving the Democratic Party as well (a sentiment we have all either had or actually acted upon by this point.)

And I am sorry that the Left (not DAILYKOS, the LEFT -- the perpetrator Cindy herself identified) has yet again chewed up and spit out another person who took a simple thing and turned it into a great movement at a time our country desperately needed a voice to ask the question:  What Noble Cause?  Why do I accuse the Left of this? Because of its continual reliance on the same tactics to determine who is a valid coalition partner as used by the Right:  if I agree with you you are my ally.  If you say something I don't like, you're my enemy.  There's no middle ground.

Hopefully, the left can learn something from this.  Because there aren't enough brave "everyman/everywoman" folks speaking out as it is, a scary proposition when neither political party has the cojones to stand for what is is right.

I will always be grateful that Cindy asked her question.  And refused to give up and be silenced through ignoring, giving power and visibility to the anti-war movement.  And grateful for her service to her country, despite it not being in uniform.  I will miss her activism.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


Here's what I find interesting (0.00 / 0)
The language used against Cindy by her so-called "allies" was quite similar to the language used by Black or Latino politicians or political activists who challenge the "prevailing wisdom" of the Democratic Party on ANYTHING.

Thing is, the Black activists are almost always right--that's why I read The Black Commentator on a regular basis.  It's one of the few publications that make me sit up and think, because what I read there isn't just a regurgitation of what's in other "leftist" publications.

But of course, Blacks HAVE to vote for the Democrats because there's nowhere else to go.  The Democrats are bad, and they're not really going to do anything for Black people, but the Republicans are much, much worse (really, they are).

See, the Democratic Party just HAS to get the votes of middle-aged gun-toting Bubbas from Alabama who have Confederate flag stickers on the bumpers of their trucks.  And the Democrats need the votes of Blacks, but they don't want to earn them.  They're too busy doing circus performer-esque contortions in pursuit of the Great White Bubba.


[ Parent ]
Thank you Cindy (9.67 / 6)
I was fortunate enough...

No. That's not right.

I was ACTIVE enough to have been able to meet Cindy several times here in the Northwest. My first meeting was when she collapsed here in Seattle. I went to check on her with another CodePinker and retired Colonel Ann Wright.

Lately, I too have been wondering why I risk when most of this country doesn't give a shit. Why my kids have to worry about me while other Moms are out getting pedicures.

I am no longer just angry at the Republicans. I am pissed off with the Democrats, too.

My country is turning to shit.

But I won't give up. 

Cindy stood up. She has every right to sit down. She's been marching for an awful long time, receiving death threats and hate.

Let Cindy sit.

The rest of us need to stand the fuck up.

And... this isn't about some other fucking blog. Please don't make it about Kos or blogging.

WE ARE TRYING TO STOP A FUCKING WAR!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix


Excuser me, (7.50 / 2)
Cindy is right about the Democratic Party and most of the Democrats I know who consider themselve to be left-wingers.  So why get upset about that is turning out to be true of the left.  I am not the only poster that often askes people to remember that the Democrats got us to this point with their votes to, you name it, reduce funds to schools, be miserly with healthcare dollars, voted in Clinton's Welfare [de]form, etc., and all the other stuff they have voted on that gives a tensey bit to the left and calls it a day.

I knew once the Democrats were in, there would not be much change.  I did expect more effort to stop the war -- but what do you expect from a party that has no other idea than to concur with the Rs that we should be an Empire?

Vigilance is the price of freedom. That means us citizens, and not our professional military or its industrial complex bleeding us for every dollar they waste protecting corporate hegemony. That is part of what weakens citizens and puts us in danger.


Would you people just STOP already???? (7.50 / 2)

Yes, I'm talking to the marginracers up above.

This post was MEANT to be a paean to Cindy Sheehan, not yet ANOTHER place for the personality conflict gang to play their one-upmanship games.

  TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. The Daily Rant®. Open Threads. WRite your own Mini "Let's Fight Here" post, for all I care.

Just stop FUCKING UP EVERY MOTHERFUCKING DISCUSSION WITH THIS SHIT.

What ARE you people, TWELVE?


--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


may I suggest that if (0.00 / 0)
"margin races" bother you this much that you ask soapy to limit the number of replies allowed to comments?

It is one of the "dangers" of threaded discussions of course that people will reply to replies to replies.

And, no, I haven't been 12 for quite some time, thanks for asking though!

Never miss a good chance to shut up.
~~T e x a s B i x B e n d e r, from "Don't Squat with Yer Spurs On"


[ Parent ]
12 x Almost 4 (2.00 / 1)
What ARE you people, TWELVE?

Speaking for myself only, almost 46.  In 2 1/2 months.

I always forget about the margins, so for my contribution to that I will apologize.  I will not, however, for the substance of what I said.  I stand by it, as always.

(P.S.  I got your e-mail.  I'll respond to it sometime before tomorrow AM but have been scrambling working from home for 2 days sick as a dog with a sprained knee for good measure.)

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
On my screen (0.00 / 0)
it only takes 6 replys to hit the right margin.

while I understand that the flow of the overall thread gets a lot of blank space to the left when there are a series of exchanges beyond that - the ability to have such an exchange is the strength of the scoop / soapblox model.

It is, in my opinion, the reason dKos got so huge - it was the software that allowed people to really connect - to initiate a conversation - or really argue - without having to do the kind of disjointed "responding to comment #13 above" nonsense you see on blogger, etc

"margin races" may therefore happen in pleasant exchanges or nasty 12 year old shoving matches.  I think they represent one of the strengths of the format, not a weakness.  It's also not something that will be easily controlled - any more so that the tit for tat exchanges that happen in any format.

yes, taking it elsewhere or restarting is nice - but that involves both people playing along - in my experience is just spreads the flamewars and disrupts the good conversations - so I'd rather just let the original "margin race" stand - let the two people involved work it out - around here that often, at least used to, end pretty well.

Yes, this diary was intended as a paean to Cindy. And a well deserved one - her work the last three years is heroic and the treatment she's recieved disgusting.  But her comments were not just about dKos, nor is the kind of treatment she was subject to isolated to that community.

squelching a bunch else I had written to try and keep the comment at least somewhat focused, and maybe even potent

sometimes you win. sometimes you lose. and sometimes.... it rains.


[ Parent ]
negative effects of Sheehan's statement (11.00 / 1)
I have no quarrel whatsoever with Ms. Sheehan's decision to retire from activism, which is a personal choice which no one can question or argue with, but I feel she has done a tremendous disservice to the world by the tone of the public statement she has made.

Social justice movements are entirely dependent for their success on the courage, belief, and energy of the people in the movement. If they have enough courage and belief, their movement succeeds; if they do not, it fails. Political activism is one of those areas of life in which whatever you believe to be true, becomes true.

Ms. Sheehan has made a statement with an underlying tone which says "The movement is a failure. Americans are failures. The struggle to end the war is a waste of time." This is why her statement is so upsetting to most of us.

When a person with so much visibility in the movement makes such a statement, she is actually spreading a massive wave of self-doubt throughout the worldwide movement. Everyone in the movement will probably read her statement. She is spreading the feeling that the movement will fail to activists all over the globe, and because of this, she will cause it to actually fail. (That is, unless a hundred other highly visible people step in and begin spreading the opposite belief, the belief that we will succeed.)

There is no valid reason for her to have done this. It doesn't matter what her personal beliefs are, or what her personal feelings are. Her statement causes tremendous damage, and can have no possible beneficial effect for anyone. It is the only completely selfish thing that I personally have any knowledge of her ever doing.

My hope is that people will understand the danger posed by her statement, the danger that by losing hope, we will cause ourselves to fail. I hope that people understand that if we believe that we will succeed, we will in fact really succeed. I hope that the hopefulness of this knowledge will enable people to overcome the negative consequences of her statement.




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