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Markos Moulitsas Admits WANTING TO Work for the CIA

by: francislholland

Thu Jun 28, 2007 at 14:10:08 PM PDT





[EDITOR'S NOTE: I changed the title of this post (from "Admits Working for..." to "Admits WANTING TO WORK FOR...") in a quite possibly VAIN ATTEMPT to inject some truth in this post... though it seems rather fruitless to attempt such a thing, given the author's propensity for obfuscation, exaggeration, inaccuracy and outright dishonesty when it comes to his posts about Markos Moulitsas and Daily Kos.


PLEASE NOTE: These anti-DKos/Moulitsas posts are NOT endorsed by the owner of this blog, and in many cases outright denounced. I am no fan of Moulitsas or his blog, with quite good reason; that does NOT mean that I endorse this series of malicious, distorted and absurdly obsessive defamatory posts.

INARGUABLY, there exist valid and factual reasons for criticising and even lambasting Mr. Moulitsas -- and in my opinion, the mendacious antagonism displayed in Mr. Holland's posts only serves to discredit him and, most distressingly, My Left Wing -- and has the added benefit to Mr. Moulitsas of allowing dispassionate observers to dismiss any and all criticisms of him and his blog as being of the same bent as Mr. Holland's.


Mr. Holland, in my view, does a great disservice to those of us with FACTUAL, HONEST criticism of Mr. Moulitsas and his blog; his deliberate distortions and hysterical style taint all of us with legitimate complaints and opprobrium of Mr. Moulitsas and those who venerate his opinions and behaviour.

-- Maryscott O'Connor]




Markos Moulitsas (DailyKos)
Spent Six Months Working at the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

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"As an organization their heart is in the right place.  I've never had any problem with the CIA." -- Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, June 2, 2006.

Hat Tip to Stu Piddy, and cross-posted at the Francis L. Holland Blog.

Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, owner of the DailyKos website, now admits that he spent six months in the employ of the US Central Intelligence Agency in 2001.  In a one-hour interview on June 2, 2006 interview at the Commonwealth Club, Moulitsas, also known as "Kos," admitted that he was a CIA employee and would have "no problem working for them" in the present:

QUESTION:  Not long ago, liberals loathed the Central Intelligence Agency as the enemy of democratic governments and they installed dictators around the world, and these days you read the papers and people on the Left are rallying to the defense of the CIA and are indignant when the CIA is politicized.  How did this come about, that suddenly liberals are championing the CIA:

MARKOS' ANSWER:  I don't know.  You know I.

QUESTION:  Do you find it stranger or ironic, this sudden love for the CIA?

MARKOS' ANSWER:  You know . . . coughs . . . I think a lot of the people that did have problems with the CIA, I mean it was a very vocal minority.

[CONTINUED BELOW]


francislholland :: Markos Moulitsas Admits WANTING TO Work for the CIA


MARKOS' ANSWER:  You know . . . coughs . . . I think a lot of the people that did have problems with the CIA, I mean it was a very vocal minority.  I think most people really didn't think about it all that much.  Right? It wasn't really on their radar screens, ah, in the way that now it is, because now we are in this huge war, and it was the CIA that was warning the Administration against invading because, there were no weapons of mass destruction.

Here's a little secret I don't think I've ever written about:  But in 2001, I was unemployed, underemployed, unemployed.  You know I was in that . . You all have been there "dot com" people?  Kinda like, in between jobs, doin' a little contract work and . . . kinda. So, you know.  That's where I was: in this really horrible netherworld of 'will I make rent next month' and . . .

So, I applied to the CIA and I went all the way to the end, I mean it was to the point where I was going to sign papers to become Clandestine Services.  And it was at that point that the Howard Dean campaign took off and I had to make a decision whether I was gonna kinda join the Howard Dean campaign, that whole process, or was I was going to become a spy.  (Laughter in the audience.)  It was going to be a tough decision at first, but then the CIA insisted that if, if I joined that, they'd want me to do the first duty assignment in Washington, DC, and I hate Washington, DC.  Six years in Washington, DC [inaudible] that makes the decision a lot easier.

[ . . .]  This is a very liberal institution.  And in a lot of ways, it really does attract people who want to make a better, you know, want to make the world a better place . . . Of course, they've got their Dirty Ops and this and that, right but as an institution itself the CIA is really interested in stable world.  That's what they're interested in.  And stable worlds aren't created by destabilizing regimes and creating wars.  Their done so by other means.  Assassination labor leaders . . .  I'm kidding!

[ . . . ] I don't think it's a very partisan thing to want a stable world.  And even if you're protecting American interests, I mean that can get ugly at times, but generally speaking I think their hearts in the right place.  As an organization their heart is in the right place.  I've never had any problem with the CIA.  I'd have no problem working for them . .

    *  *    *  *  *

I feared something like this was coming.  I warned America back on June 2, 2006 that Markos Moulitsas was "an exquisite little crank," but I remained extremely concerned that he might not be utterly discredited before he was able to steer the Democrats' presidential nomination in 2008.

 
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That's why I started the blog called "The Truth About Markos" in which I said, in an article entitled "The Rehabilitation of Markos Moulitsas,"

Today, Markos Moulitsas, is the doctrinaire leftist publisher of the DailyKos "progressive" anti-war blog, railing against the moderation of candidates like Hillary Rodham Clinton and Harold Ford. But in the 1980's, Mr. Moulitsas was an unabashed Reagan Democrat, even working as a campaign aid to George H.W. Bush in the 1992 Presidential election. WASHINGTON MONTHLY  FRANCIS L. HOLLAND BLOG
Last year, in a piece Markos wrote for the Cato (libertarian) Institute, Markos acknowledged that the spent the 1980's as a Reagan Republican. MARKOS' CATO ARTICLE, Yes, "Progessive" Markos of DailyKos was a Reagan Republican!!!!!!!!

How did Markos achieve this stunning metamorphosis in just a few short years? Actually, nobody knows and Markos isn't telling. He has told interviewers, improbably, that he last voted for the Republicans in 1992, because he suddenly realized that they didn't support "states rights" as strongly as he would have liked.

Now, I need no longer worry.  Democrats will no longer listen to Markos Moulitsas unless they want their presidential candidate to be chosen by an agent of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

But there is so much to say about this.  I was banned from participation in MyDD and notified in writing that the banning was because I violated the unspoken rule against criticizing Markos Moulitsas.  But I insisted at DailyKos and MyDD that I would prefer to be banned for criticizing someone like Markos than to be ashamed later for having failed to criticize him.

There's another lesson to be learned here.  Black people are the Left's "canary in the coal-mine."  If you find that you are part of "progressive organization" that has no Black people, you should ask yourself if, perhaps, Black people have legitimate and fundamentally ethical reasons why they refuse to participate, or why we critize.  In this case, the reason is that Markos Moulitsas is a Reaganite ex-CIA operative in training.  We intuitively do not trust people like that to lead progressive movements.

Each of us in the progressive movement has an obligation to keep his/her eyes open and ward against government and other covert attempts to to destroy or divert our movement.  I have criticized and warned the public about Markos Moulitsas because I believe he represents precisely that sort of threat of covert subversion.  With the news that Markos was a CIA employee, I feel I have been vindicated and that the role of of the Afrosphere and the historical role of Blacks as the vanguard of the Left has been vindicated.


Poll
Can Markos Moulitsas be trusted?
Yes
Maybe
No
Hell, no!

Results

Tags: , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
I just want the public record to reflect that: (0.00 / 0)
I voted "yes" in the poll...

{:o)


Thanks donkeytale! n/t (5.00 / 1)


"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

[ Parent ]
do you think Valerie Plame can be trusted? (0.00 / 0)
just asking...

Yes, the CIA has done some majorly fucked up shit, and probably continues to do some majorly fucked up shit.

Yes, the idea that the CIA can be considered "the good guys" in American governance is just further proof that American governance has gone off the rails.

That said, I don't consider having worked or considered working for the CIA to be a demerit in any way, of any kind.

It actually makes me respect the patriotism of the individual in question.


[ Parent ]
Also wanted to say (0.00 / 0)
that I have been searching for a way to recommend this essay but can't seem to find the recommend button..

Have my privileges been revoked?

{:o)

Or have Dr. Holland's?

{:o)


Neither, (6.00 / 1)
The "Missing Recommend Button" is a bug in the SoapBlox software.

The latest update did not stop the problem from happening, but did give admins a way to fix it, which I see has been done here.

Cheers!

"Truth has no time of its own. Its hour is now -- always, and indeed then most truly when it seems most unsuitable to actual circumstances."


[ Parent ]
and mine, too (0.00 / 0)
my diary "markos moulitsas admits to being karl rove" was up for two days w/o a recommend button, and is dying a slow death down the page.

pls. go recommend it, now that there's a button.

the great and powerful kos orders you to.

jon stewart sez: "when i want news, i turn to cnn...and they turn...to skippy...the bush...kangaroo!"


[ Parent ]
And another thing Mr. Holland, (8.00 / 1)
I read a bit of your bio where it says that you are "retired."

I saw your picture the other day. The only people I know who are allowed to "retire" as young as you are police officers....and military men...


hahahaha n/t (7.00 / 1)


"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

[ Parent ]
Francis (0.00 / 0)
You say the following : "Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, owner of the DailyKos website, now admits that he spent six months in the employ of the US Central Intelligence Agency in 1991."

What do you mean by 1991?

Stu Piddy....a free range human


MyGod, Stu, You're RIGHT! (0.00 / 0)
Stu, I guess my mind just couldn't get rapped around the fact that Markos was with the Republicans FOR AN ENTIRE DECADE and THEN sought to join the CIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What more do we need to know about this guy?  Does he support extraordinary rendition?  If not, why would he say, 'I have no problems with the CIA.  I would work with them again.'????????

I'm going to go fix that date above.  It's correct in the transcript (which was a lot of tedious work) but it's not correct in my discussion, I guess because I just couldn't wrap my mind around the fact that Markos was deciding whether to be a CIA agent AT THE SAME TIME that he was deciding whether to join the Dean campaign. I wish he'd just gone ahead and joined the CIA instead of starting a progressive group and making a giant database of the Left's I/P addresses.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
1991? (0.00 / 0)
Markos Moulitsas Zúniga (born September 11, 1971

When he was 20 years old?

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em


[ Parent ]
Oops (0.00 / 0)
You must have changed the date to 2001.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

[ Parent ]
misleading title (8.00 / 3)
that he worked for them is only speculation.

I did feel a bit surprised that he had been interviewing with them in that period... but not too surprised in the end.

I think the only truly important part of this is kos' mistruth that  the CIA is a liberal organization.

we ought to prove otherwise, it's the simplist "proof" in the world...


-pyrrho-


Was Kos to Be a CIA SPY in the Blog World? (0.00 / 0)
What interesting is his consistency...His family is rightwing...he says that....and they were involved in the juntal in El Salvador to some unknown to me...degree...then he supports Reagen, signs up with the CIA for "interviews" and starts a conservative blog which turns liberals into conservativea and which supposedly supports some kind of progressive something or other.

But to say he was employed by them.....I havent' heard him say that....

BUt no one is specualting why he was offered the job as a Spy in Washington while he was a known blogger...it's pretty obvious....to Me.....


Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Because he wasn't (7.00 / 3)
BUt no one is specualting why he was offered the job as a Spy in Washington while he was a known blogger...it's pretty obvious....to Me.....

No one is speculationg because that's not what happened. When he interviewed, he wasn't yet a blogger, much less a well known one. He was a law school graduate without a job.

I really don't get what the big deal is here. He interviewed for a job. I can't find anywhere that he acknowledges he ever worked for the agency. He was (apparently) offered a job which he declined. End of story.

Whole lotta nothing.

to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance .  G. Washington


[ Parent ]
Kane your WRONG ,,,KOS SPOKE TO CIA ABOUT BLOGGING (0.00 / 0)
Your wrong....He says he spoke to the CIA about his blogging....he was blogging with MY DD, I believe...but he's on recond...it's in his own words...

Again it's something he said...I didn't say he spoke to the CIA about his blogging...he says it. Listen to the tape.

He was looking for a job....that is such a load of crap....so he applies to the CIA...he's always the poor person looking for a job, escaping the War in El Salvador as a refugee, growing up in a familty that couldn't afford to send him to college in one of the richest suburbs of the world....a familty that's connected to the junta....or the elite of elite classes in El Salvador...

I find it easy to conceieve that if he did interview with the CIA and talked to dozens of people who were all liberal and who agreed with his views as he says they did...that they might call him and ask for a favor...since he would have no problem working for the CIA....

This is awful Kane...it a whole lotta something...maybe you didn't read my diary where it puts together the pieces of a the guys actual history ...not the implied history of a poor El Salvadoran Refugee...

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
No Stu, I'm not wrong (0.00 / 0)
He doesn't mention anything in the interview about discussing blogging with the CIA. He mentions "my website". I have no idea what he's referring to, but the interview was in 2001 and DailyKos didn't start up until may of 2002, so it couldnt have been Dkos he was talking about. MyDD was brand new in 2001.

I read your diary. It contained a whole lot of nothing. Miscellaneous facts which you twisted into meaningful history, with unfounded allegations and assumptions. He never implied "poor El Salvadoran Refugee". You made that part up. As you typically do. You don't just observe. You don't read between the lines. You write the story between the lines and claim it as fact.

to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance .  G. Washington


[ Parent ]
GODAMNIT KANE YOUR WRONG, WRONG, WRONG WRONG (0.00 / 0)
I cannot count how many times you have made me go back and demonstrate that my information is factual...you don't write any diaries I have ever seen....so if you aren't going to do any work on your own don't criticize unless you are willing to prove to yourself at least that the information is not accurrate,

Here the goddamn page set up for you and everything..

http://www.commonwea...

At 14 munites ...14:10 to be exact Markos says the following ...he's talking to a CIA empolyee about how liberal the CIA is...

Markos Moulitasa:

"to the point where I was talking to somebody, we were talking about MY WEBSITE and she was agreeing with me on everthing....this is before the war...."

Now, not only he is talking to the CIA about blogging...he's talking about HIS WEBSITE....so it appears he's talking about MY DD but I don't know....anyway ...he says it is HIS WEBSITE. GODDMANIT!!!!

And of course he did imply he was a poor Salvadoran refugee...but you can look that up on your own.

Quit doing this!!!!!


Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Thank you Stu (0.00 / 0)
for confirming exactly what I said. He doesn't mention blogging in his discussions with the CIA. He mentions "his website". You didn't need to go back and confirm anything. I said exactly that in my comment. And just like I said, neither of us know exactly what he means by "my website".  Thanks for confirming that my correction of your comment was accurate.

to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance .  G. Washington

[ Parent ]
Never mind (10.00 / 1)
If he is discussing  his website....we know that he is discussing his Website with the CIA...what he means is his website....what I don't know is which website that is his ...he is referring to...whether it's the begginings of Daily Kos or his assoication with My DD.

Your are saying he did not say the word "blogging"...what do people do on MyDD and Daily Kos....they blog...since mY DD and Daily Kos ARE BLOGS then he talked about blogging....

Never mind, man.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
/Agreed (8.67 / 6)
This interview, which has actually been posted before somewhere since I remember seeing it, admits to Markos applying to the CIA.

It admits to him being vetted by the CIA.

It admits to him being on the verge of accepting an offer of employment from the CIA.

But I'm still trying to find the part where he admits that he  actually *worked* for the CIA - let alone for 6 months.

Innuendo does not make fact.

/sigh


You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
Shaniika (6.00 / 1)
He does not say he worked for the CIA ...The Diary is not presenting the facts accurately.

Stu Piddy....a free range human

[ Parent ]
We Agree (0.00 / 0)
Which is why I posted the comment that I did.  The title of the diary asserted exactly that; to wit, that Markos admitted working for the CIA (for six months.)  Whether he did or he did not, there was nothing in the quoted interview to indicate that Markos made such an admission.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather

[ Parent ]
Markos was PAID for six months by the CIA. (3.00 / 1)
He SAYS on the tape that he did it for THE MONEY.  That means he GOT PAID.  That means he was ON THE PAYROLL or was ON CONTRACT, but in any case he was EMPLOYED and he specifically states that THE MONEY HE GOT was the reason he went there.

Maybe Kos isn't the only one who's receiving money from the CIA.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
You've Jumped the Shark (10.33 / 3)
The tape does not say that Markos did anything other than apply to the CIA because he was unemployed, i.e. for the money.  He also did not say he was on the payroll.  "Did it" is being used by you out of context. 

I could give a shit about Markos Moulitsas, as 45 nanoseconds of any research into my views about DailyKOS and Markos would have told you.  I do care, however, a great deal about integrity and *especially* about MLW.  You're not showing any with reinvigorating this claptrap here.

As for the rest, it's so far over the fin of the shark as to have you in mid air.  Not to mention that it is, once again, ad hominem - the last refuge of scoundrels.  (As is yelling, a habit of yours.)

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
shanikka, why does you blog have only 5 posts in 2007? (1.86 / 7)
I noticed a signature line in comments at the end of one of your posts here in which you tell us, "Visit my private space for political meanderings Political Sapphire."

I went to your private space, and it seems to me that you have only posted there five times in all of the year 2007.  What's that about shanikka.  Although you relentlessly criticize everything I say against white male hegemony and the CIA connections of Markos Moulitsas, it seems that you don't have very much to say yourself, or you don't believe it's very important to say it.

Or maybe it has to do with the whitosphere/blackosphere issue.  Maybe there isn't much interest in visiting the site of a Black woman who doesn't support the Black man running for president and doesn't support the woman running for president because you prefer to support one of the white men who are running for president, so that we can perpetuate the unbroken string of 43 consecutive terms of white male monopoly of the presidency.

Of course, it's your right to advocate the continuance of the monopoly, but maybe it's just not a very interesting position to take, because it's so old and tired and "been there, done that," and so people ignore your blog?

Frankly, all I have is speculation as to why you virtually never post at your own blog, while finding time to post daily and even hourly at the whitosphere sites of MyLeftWing and DailyKos.  Maybe you can share something with the public that will help us to understand this anomaly?


"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
Francis (8.67 / 3)
Again, you've completely jumped the shark.  How and when I write (here, or elsewhere) is none of your ashy assed business. 

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather

[ Parent ]
Actually he is the shark (9.00 / 1)
I'm just speculating here....

[ Parent ]
Next Thing You Know (7.33 / 6)
I'll be having Markos' love child and that's why I was too busy to write this year. 

(Of course, when one is being attacked by such an animal, I've heard it told that a good thump on the nose sets them straight, although they are usually persistent...it's that mindless attack programming, I guess.)

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
Oh-oh (8.00 / 2)
don't let Marisacat hear you say that....y'know how she likes to speculate about your "relationships"...

{:o)


[ Parent ]
HAHAHAHA n/t (0.00 / 0)


"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

[ Parent ]
I think she might have a job Francis (7.50 / 2)
possibly a very intellectually involved and time consuming one. Its even possible that she has a life in the realm many deluded people call "reality", although from my reading of her comments you are correct, she has definitely supported white male hegemony in the marriage department too.

Although, to be fair to Shanikka, males of any perceived color/facial characteristical orientation, in fact possess very little practical "hegemony" in their marriages. Something tells me this rule of the neutered married male might apply in her marriage as well...

Of course, I'm just speculating here, too...

I find it positively refreshing that someone has a blog but never posts on it. I have a blog www.mindependent.wordpress.com  on which I have only posted twice lifetime.

Mainly because I forgot my own password and am too lazy to retrieve it. Plus too lazy to crosspost all my BS. And as you suggest, nobody reads it anyway, unless you are willing to start up still another community blog.

Just what the world needs.

More redundancy...

{:o)

Shanikka's not exhibiting an overt need to diarize/comment all the live long day proves at least one thing: She is not a candidate for Blogoholics Anonymous, MLW Chapter.

She might be a recovering blogoholic for all I know.

Love to see you at our next chapter meeting, sir.

And once we succeed in winning a CPT code for "Color-Aroused Disorder", for which I am sure your benefactors in the "APA" (American Paranoid Association I think it means) will be quite happy and reward you well for all your strenuous efforts on their behalf (of course, I 'm just speculating here, too), why don't you help me in my cause: getting a CPT code for blogoholism, an insideous psychological addiction that studies show afflicts a rather large percentage of centrist and mildly liberal Democrats....


[ Parent ]
.....over the age of 50 (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Kos spent six months in their employ, doing as he was told. (0.00 / 0)
That's what I mean when I say "work."  He admits that he did it for money and he so he clearly got paid for his work for the CIA.  The question is whether a paid CIA training period that would lead to a permanent job constitutes "work."  I think it does but the facts and the record (Makos' own confession) speak for themselves.  People are welcomed to debate the meaning of the word "work" if they want to, but the fact that he was in their employ, did as he was told and got paid for his training period, constitutes "work" in most people's book.

Lord only knows what else he has done for the CIA.  If it took him 5 years (2001 - 2006) in Democratic circles before he admitted to the public that he spent six months on the CIA payroll, how long will it take him to admit that he has been on the CIA payroll throughout his time at DailyKos as well, if such be the case?

What did Markos mean when he said, "I’ve never had any problem with the CIA.  I’d have no problem working for them . . . " ?  Isn't this possibly a confession that he IS working for the CIA now, but that he is not allowed to openly acknowledge it due to his agreement with the CIA?

If I were allowed to attend YearlyKos this August in Chicago, I would go as a protester of the CIA's extraordinary rendition, with which Markos has "no problem" and I would demand to know whether "Secret Agent" Markos is still receiving remuneration, directly or indirectly, from the Central Intelligence Agency or other agencies of the US Government?

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
Not according to the evidence presented so far, (9.00 / 1)
"The question is whether a paid CIA training period that would lead to a permanent job constitutes "work." "

As best as I can tell, you have not substatiated that he was paid, or that he was trained, only that he interviewed.

Cheers!

"Truth has no time of its own. Its hour is now -- always, and indeed then most truly when it seems most unsuitable to actual circumstances."


[ Parent ]
Kos SAYS he went there because he was unemployed and needed money? (1.00 / 1)
Are we to believe that he went to the CIA because he needed money and then spent six months there, in expensive Washington, DC, working as a volunteer?  That STINKS TO HIGH HEAVENS.  It simply doesn't make any logical sense.  If Kos was so desperate for money when he applied to the CIA, as he says in the speech at the Commonwealth Club, then why would he work for six months for the CIA in Washington FOR FREE?

In fact, the sequence of comments in Kos' speech at the Commonwealth Club makes it perfectly clear what was going on.  A privileged boy from a wealthy Salvadoran oligarch family, who had credibility because he had already worked for Republicans Henry Hyde and George H. W. Bush, and because he had done a stint in the US Army, then went to the CIA and offered his services to them.  This is all based on published INTERVIEWS with Markos and A SPEECH BY MARKOS at the Commonwealth Club.

Then, Markos says unbelievably, he went to work for the CIA because he was "unemployed, underemployed."  When people go to work for someone BECAUSE they are "underemployed, unemployed," do the ever accept to work for six months without pay?  If so, how do they pay their bills during that six months?

Because Markos is trying to craft for himself a leadership role in the Democratic Party, it's MARKOS HIMSELF who must carry his burden of proof to answer these questions and dispel these devastating doubts in a convincing way.  In my mind there is NO WAY WHATSOEVER that Markos can have credibility on the Left after what we have learned about him, and without addressing these questions.

There are people who still defends Markos after Markos admits that he spent six months in training at the CIA in Washington.  People who still defend Markos are NOT leftists and are NOT progressives. I don't know WHAT those people are.  Maybe they TOO are ex(?)Republicans who spent time in training at the CIA. 

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
Where Are (9.00 / 1)
Markos' admissions about "pay" and "money" and "six months"? So far, not in any source you have linked to in this diary.

You're supposedly a lawyer, so where's the evidence that you actually have to show us? Remember, this story is from LAST YEAR and a number of us both read the transcript of that Commonwealth Club speech and discussed its implications long before you caught up to us a year later and posted this diary.  So, since you're making the claim, the evidentiary burden is on you.  Link to the literal statements you are making, above.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
Mr. Moulitsas admits he was on the CIA payroll. (1.00 / 1)
According to his own confession at the Commonwealth Club speech, Mr. Moulitsas took the CIA training, got paid for it, and did as he was told at the CIA for at least six months, in preparation for a career at the CIA.  By most definitions, that means he "worked" there. 

If you watch and listen to the video from last year's YearlyKos, as I have, and then compare the voice of Mr. Moulitsas at YearlyKos to the voice on the given speech at the Commonwealth Club, I think you'll agree that there can be no question but that this is the same voice in both instances, just as the Commonwealth Club link indicates. 

Markos' voice at the Commonwealth Club, where he confessed to working at the CIA and to having hid it from the Left for five years, is the same voice as heard on the tape at YearlyKos last year.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
Interesting last resort (7.50 / 2)
Imagine the thought process there--

Rent's due. Oh fuck it. I guess I'll go apply at the CIA.


Markos family is VERY wealthy. His uncle was Minster of Education in El Salvador. (0.00 / 0)
It seems to me that Markos decision to work with the CIA was more related to his family's connections to the Salvadoran oligarchy than to being a starving lawyer with a law degree and a few years of practice under his belt, who nonetheless had no other alternative but to work for the CIA.

"Moulitsas was born in Chicago to a middle class, ethnically-Greek family from El Salvador (his uncle, an architect, had briefly been that country's education minister). The family moved back to El Salvador when Moulitsas was four and was on the right-wing side of the Cold War proxy fight there. But as that war's intrusions became unbearable--Moulitsas talks about stepping over dead bodies--the family returned to Chicago, where he grew up, in his own words, "a loudmouthed nerd." Washington Monthly

I simply CAN'T understand the thought process Markos expresses on the tape, except as the mind of a rich privileged child of the Salvadoran oligarchy trying to figure out how best to serve the right wing.  So, how AND WHEN did he end up as a leader of the Left???????????

Since he says he has "I’ve never had any problem with the CIA.  I’d have no problem working for them . . . , " how do we know he's not still on the CIA payroll right now?

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
CIA Remibursement (5.00 / 1)
CIA applicants do get reimbursement for their expenses.......

The question is....was he was accepted at some point...the CIA says applicants are accepted anywhere from 2 to 9 months after applying.....

the question is whether he was accepted and was being trained.

He says:  " I went all the way to the end to the point where I was going to sign papers to become a clandestine services......"

Was he under training? Was he recieving payments for the training....I don't know....

But it's just awful either way....the leader of a "progressive blog" being involved with the CIA for 6 months and wishing to be a SPY in clandestine services while discussing blogging and website with the CIA....

Here's a great piece by a woman who was rejected by the CIA

http://www.ducts.org...


Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
A Typical Koshevik Chimes In (7.00 / 3)
I'd just like to say that Markos Moulitsas is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I've ever known in my life.

And no one had to order me to say that, either.

There are seven sins in the world: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. -- Mahatma Gandhi


Did you train with Markos at the CIA? (1.00 / 1)
Just asking.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

[ Parent ]
Call me petty but ... (9.67 / 9)
One of the reasons I loved dailykos when I joined three plus years ago was because the diaries posted, on the front page or not, were legitimate, they didn't deal with speculation, the sources were always provided and linked to and the sources were legitimate.  That the site has become what it is now speaks to other concerns, there's censorship and banning, there's the echo chamber but what appears on the frontpage is clearly not speculation. 

We've just gotten through a bout of I/P essays and the vicious attacks on one another, that was preceded by the same kind of vitriol on Kos essays on the front page and in the recommended essays. 

Now this is on the front page and frankly, it's disheartening for two reasons, one is the sourcing is speculative at best and another is that it opens the bashing of kos in comments and essays all over again.  Another one is more personal and may not be shared by the masses here but I've come to disassociate myself from essays and comments made by the author of this essay.

This, IMO, is a shady attempt to open a dialogue that has indeed previously been brought to light here on MLW, Stu wrote about this awhile ago.  It didn't make the front page then and, once again IMO, does not belong there now.

Call me petty, but we are better than this or, at least, I hope we are.  I'll shut up now, I just wanted to post my disappointment.  Pure speculation does not educate anyone nor do one bloodyass thing to advance our cause which, hopefully, is a lot more enlightened than this.



I will not die an unlived life. Fuck em, I will not live in fear, I will live out loud and on the record.  

Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 1-800-787-3224 (TTY)  


You are right (5.00 / 5)
I will demote it.

I had read it as he had accepted it, and I was wrong.

My bad.


[ Parent ]
Diane (5.00 / 2)
It's a pretty sloppy piece of work based in  part on something i spent a lot of time on. Shegald, Xicano power and others spend a lot of time working on their diaries.

Most of the stuff you promote is garbage.

By the way I wouldn't promote most of what I write, unless you see a lot of time is spent on it.

You guys have too much of a clique going on.

But ....it's in the end...no great matter to me.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Stu- (7.50 / 2)
I am not that fond of the author in the first place, and promoted it in SPITE of the fact I find him to be sexist and terribly fixated on forcing his choice of jargon down everyone's throat.  I put that aside and promoted it because I read it poorly and though there was substantive proof he HAD worked for them. which there was NOT.

What part of clique is that?

I made a mistake. I read with 3 whining kids in my ear, and read lazily and sloppily and it was MY OWN mistake.

I promote Xicano Powers a lot, go back and check.

I don't read I/P diaries so I let the other editors who do read them make that decision.

I have NO idea why I am justifying myself or my decisions.

Garbage is in the eye of the beholder Stu, and you can think my opinions are such, and it bothers me not at all.



[ Parent ]
Right on (6.00 / 5)
I know someone who went through the same process with the FBI and changed her mind before she was employed by the agency.  She was never employed by the FBI, and it doesn't seem to me that Kos was either.

I did get a chuckle out of some of the quotes but in all honesty I think this diary is just terribly misleading. 


[ Parent ]
employed by the agency? (0.00 / 0)
you mean, your friend is woikin' for the CIA?

[ Parent ]
No, I am only referring to the FBI no the CIA (0.00 / 0)
It's a federal agency, no?

[ Parent ]
Oh, I see, my response was quite confusing (0.00 / 0)
I shouldn't write late at night.

I meant to say that the person to whom I was referring was never actually employed by the FBI even though she went through the vetting process and was ready to go.  It didn't sound to me that Kos had actually been part of the CIA though he went through that process.

That pisses people off--going through the whole process and then deciding not to take the job.


[ Parent ]
Dearest Petty (0.00 / 0)
I suppose this diary didn't truly qualify for frontpaging, except perhaps as an example that "affirmative action" can still be apllied at the discretion of the "boss," even tho Scotus scuttled this hallmark liberal achievement from the 70s.

Yes, but where were your judicious thoughts when Stu was frontpaged and so subsequently was also the good Dr. Blogging Chihuahua, when they both predicted that the US would attack Iran in June? Wasn't that also a fantastical concept, and about as unlikely (maybe even more unlikely) than Koze woikin' for the CIA? Arent we also above that kind of well...stu piddy nonsense? Arent all liberals further tarnished in the halfwitted minds of the average Americano when garbage like that is recycled on the front page of our fair Wing zine?

BTW, today is the last day of June...get through one more day without airraids over Tehran and then we can eagerly await the "US to Attack Iran in August" diaries as they sprout like pop up muffins on the MLW front page....of over baked goods.


[ Parent ]
Dearest Donkeytail, no woodshed in sight (6.00 / 3)
Two questions, what in the hell does affirmative action (notice, not in quotes) have to do with this essay?  Are you insinuating that racism prevails here because an essay that is built on pure speculation and sensationalism and, IMO,half -truths (which is being kind) doesn't belong on the frontpage?

Second, what the fuck does Iran have to do with my comment?  The only reference I made to Stu Piddy was in naming him as the author of another such essay on Markos.

I will not be taken to the woodshed by you, Mr. Tail, so tuck that tail between your legs and get out of my way, remember you've got work to do, cleaning up and righting this website to your specifications, oh yeah, how's that working out for you?

 

I will not die an unlived life. Fuck em, I will not live in fear, I will live out loud and on the record.  

Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 1-800-787-3224 (TTY)  


[ Parent ]
I am saying that it was frontapged out of as sense of white liberal (1.00 / 1)
guilt in total disregard to what you, in your humble opinion want on the front page. Thus, an anaolgy to "affirmative action." Second, I was pointing out that the TWO articles frontpaged recently about the US attacking Iran in June were prime examples of essays built upon "pure speculation and sensationalism...and halftruths" but those were okay for the front page and this one is not...why?

Its far more likely that the KOZE worked for the CIA than the US was going to attack Iran in June.

I'm not taking you to the woodshed. I'm not taking you anywhere. You take yourself there. Have fun.

Cleaning up and righting this website? Any different from what you are doing in this very thread, Caliberal? Oh yeah, you are right and I am wrong, so therefore you are vindicated.

Hypocrit.


[ Parent ]
You keep mis-stating the facts here. (3.00 / 1)
Yes, but where were your judicious thoughts when Stu was frontpaged and so subsequently was also the good Dr. Blogging Chihuahua, when they both predicted that the US would attack Iran in June?

As I told you previously, TBC's diary was not frontpaged. He is a frontpage writer, which means that every diary he writes is automatically published to the front page, unless he opts not to frontpage it. As for the prediction of a June attack, they both cite the very credible source that is Sy Hersh; Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, broke the My Lai story, writes for the New Yorker... You know, credible. There's nothing fantastical about it. As I said to devilishadvocate just this morning, this isn't gypsy fortune-telling. It's old-fashioned, shoe-leather journalism. That doesn't mean everything reported as likely to happen does. It means that the planning is there. I lived through the build-up to the war in Iraq on pins and needles, because my husband was actively waiting for go orders. There were many false starts and date changes on that one, too, that most of the public wasn't privy to. Doesn't mean it didn't eventually happen, and it doesn't mean Iran won't happen, just because there are ongoing political machinations around it. It's a spectacularly bad idea. I hope cooler heads continue to prevail, but I've learned to expect the worst and the stupidest where the Bush/Cheney cabal are concerned.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker


[ Parent ]
Iran to be attacked in next 12 hours (11.00 / 1)
The U.S will attack Iran in June there is still 12 hours to go. If they don't my credibility is compeltey destroyed. My self image will collapse, I will go competely insane and attack Iran myself.

One way or another they will be attacked.....you'lll see...you'll see...

What I was referring to anyway were not bombs dropped from a plane.... I was talking about verbal bombs. Have you ever seen one of those dropped? The destruction is incredible.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Yes verbal bombs have destroyed entire movements (0.00 / 0)
like my bowel movements, when my wife screams at me through the bathroom door....so you think the US will attack Iran in August? I think we oughta blow the mofos all the way to heavenly Virginland and back on Halloween night...mark it down. 10/31/07....we can put Paris Hilton masks on all the "smart" bombs which will surely rain down on Teheran like all the halloween candy spilled from a child's plastic pumpkin....

[ Parent ]
No Mudge you are wrong (0.00 / 0)
The piece was frontpaged first bt MSOC, then re frontpaged by BC himself.


[ Parent ]
Prove it. (11.00 / 1)
You can't because TBC has deleted all his diaries, so there's no way to actually read what the promotion copy or comments were there. It's possible. I know there were diaries that for no obvious reason he elected not to put on the front page. It's even possible that he thought it was redundant after Stu's diary, but MSOC disagreed and promoted it. I don't remember the details well enough. You'd have to ask him. My point is simply this. Once you are a frontpage writer, it's automatic. It could also be that MSOC saw TBC's and not Stu's, because she's not here every day. Who is? None of us read every diary. Either way, I think you're awfully hung up on this shit, and you're projecting all kinds of motives onto frontpage editors that aren't there. I mean, really... "white guilt?" Give me a fucking break. Diane explained chapter and verse her thought process in promoting and demoting this diary. But if you think you know her mind better than she does, and want to assign all kinds of motives to her actions, knock yourself out. It's offensive, co-dependent bullshit, but have at it. I, for one, know how to locate the scroll bar.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
he deleted all his diaries? (0.00 / 0)
wow. I love deleting my diaries too. We have more in common than I thought. Even though he called me a "corporate shill." But I guess we're even. I called him a "chihuahua"....

You must like abusive men, like me and Chi....

{:o)


[ Parent ]
Where did you ever get the idea (7.00 / 1)
that I like you? I think I've been crystal clear.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
Ah cmon you know you like me (0.00 / 0)
at least a little bit now, dontcha?

{:o)


[ Parent ]
Honestly? (11.00 / 1)
No. I really don't. Sorry. You asked. And this is not the kind of thing I mince words about.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
Well I like you (0.00 / 0)
I just can't resist a woman who doesn't mince words...

[ Parent ]
So if you honestly don't like me (0.00 / 0)
why do you keep stalking me in the threads, like this one, engaging me at every opportunity, even butting into my dialogue with "Caliberal"?

Missionary work?

Or does the devil make you do it....


[ Parent ]
"Stalking" you? (5.00 / 1)
Let's add narcissism to the list of nauseating character traits that cause me to dislike you. I read a number of threads and comments on this site and it would be hard to miss your trail of invective.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
do you read my diaries, too? (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Very few. (0.00 / 0)
I think I've finished all of one, because it was really short. I scan a good number of the diaries when I'm on the site because I need to edit some of them. I don't do a lot of grammar/spelling editing, myself, because I hate proofreading. But I do clean up the coding and graphics, when necessary, if I have the time. Otherwise I doubt I would even scan your diaries.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
well, before you edit any of mine (9.00 / 1)
please let me know. Sometimes I have a reason for using certain words. In my latest diary, I think someone changed "Holmes" for "homes". And while "homes" is surely derived from the vernacular "homeboy", Ricky and I had a private joke. You see I wasnt Mexican American, therefore I was not a true "homeboy." I was "holmes", aka "Sherlock" aka "Casper" aka "ghost" aka white boy.

Same thing with "Ricky" and "Ricky Ricardo," both derogatory terms among latinos during the time and place I grew up. "Ricky" meant you were a coconut--brown on the outside, white on the inside, an accusation Ricky fended off constantly because he was my friend, he played football, he studied college prep in high school.

No self respecting vato named "Ricardo" allowed his name to be anglicized as "Ricky."  It was always "Richard" or "Richie", as in Richie Valens, (nee Ricardo Valenzuela)the legendary 50s chicano pop star from Pacoima.


[ Parent ]
I repeat. (5.00 / 1)
Proofreading is not my thing. I do very little of it. If I notice an obvious typo, I might fix it, but that's about the extent of it. Layout, graphics... that's my thing. And this is not my site, so I really try to stay within Maryscott's guidelines. You need never be concerned that I would start altering your text. I wouldn't do that to anyone's diaries. I certainly wouldn't alter yours because that would require that I read them... and carefully. Not going to happen. So you can relax.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
That was I -- (5.00 / 1)

I apologise -- it was presumptous, and I did wonder... I should have asked.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

[ Parent ]
no problemo, no apology necessary (0.00 / 0)
I simply switched it back. Often, your corrections are good and I accept them when the change is made. I have a problem with words like "there" "their" "pore" "pour" "poor" etc...I think you have made note of that in the past...and I always appreciate your reading my stuff at all...

[ Parent ]
wait a second...let me get this straight (0.00 / 0)
TBC is a front pager for MLW and yet he has deleted all his diaries from MLW?

Thats truly twisted...renders my sorry assed attempts of depicting blogging psychosis in "blogima verite" style rather dull and lifeless by comparison....

Capital WOW. I'd say he qualifies for more intensive intervention....he's become a blogorreic diabetic or wtf....


[ Parent ]
No, TBC has not deleted his posts (5.00 / 1)

They went into archives offline; his newer UID is Alias Mister Smith and he prefers to post under that name. Hence not many recent posts from TBC.

EVENTUALLY -- I wish I could tell you when -- we will have access to all archives ONLINE. It's taking longer than I expected, however, and I can only apologise to everyone so many times...

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
Well, that's not actually correct, either (0.00 / 0)

Now that I have perused: TBC is apparently back to posting under that handle, but prefers not to post actual essays of late.

He's also on vacation, so not posting much at all right now.

Aaaaanyway. Nothing deleted -- archived offline. That's my  main point.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
I'm a little confused, Maryscott. (6.00 / 1)
Is this something that just automatically happens. Is it arbitrary? Does it require some action on the part of the author of those diaries? I mean, mine, dating back much farther, are all still there. Will they disappear at some point? I'm just totally unfamiliar with this problem.

Here's why I thought he deleted them. He got into a dust-up with 5Hearts, deleted the front-page diary where most of their disagreement took place, then all of his diaries, under both nicknames were gone. He also tried to troll rate his comments in an open thread out of existence, at the same time. So I assumed he had deleted everything. I could be wrong. I'm still confused, however.

It's not a big deal, but one of the diaries that went with his is actually mine. It's the original Wushu diary, which he posted, not realizing that I had set up an account here and intended to post it myself. Not a big deal. It's not like it's gone. It's on my blog. But I know it was there when I posted the most recent wushu diary, because I linked to the original on both sites, in the newer diary.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker


[ Parent ]
Curmudgette -- (0.00 / 0)

I'll ask him about it the next time I get on Gmail -- it's stalled for me, for some reason.

For now, going out into the evil fucking heat wave with kidlet to run errands for beleaguered husband who is working ludicrous hours in the DESERT on-set...

Ugh.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


[ Parent ]
I can't tell you (0.00 / 0)
how much I do not miss So Cal weather. I hope for his sake he's not out in the 29 Palms area. I know they do a lot of the desert scene shooting out there. I'd have to kill myself. Try to stay cool.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
i was at that commonwealth club gathering (0.00 / 0)
and to be honest, the CIA part was rather insignificant in the context of the entire hour. As with most people, there are things to dislike and admire.

 

I want to stand as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all the kinds of things you can't see from the center. ~ Kurt Vonnegut


who were you representing..... (0.00 / 0)
Smersh?

[ Parent ]
I started a comment. (0.00 / 0)

It grew.

Now a stand-alone post.

Translating da Koz.

Later...

AG


Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


I voted "hell, no"... (0.00 / 0)
but there are very few people I trust. 

Obama 2012.  Because he didn't piss off enough people the first time around.

that he applied is old news (8.25 / 4)
it came out years ago, right after that speech. but i fail to see the proof that he in fact worked for the CIA, an application is not the same thing as a job, as anyone who has applied for a job knows.

as someone with a friend who applied to the CIA (i assume, although he never said, that he was eventually successful, as i haven't heard boo from the guy ever since), the application process is pretty involved, and takes a fair amount of time.

now if anyone has actual evidence that markos did in fact work for them, i'm all ears, but stating a hypothesis isn't proof. both can be valid steps in making an argument, but please let's not conflate the two.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat


Read My Diary on Him (0.00 / 0)
Yes, I don't think he ever said he worked for the CIA....I don't know why that's the title and then he implies that's what I'm saying....

Here's my diary....which I believe is entirely based on his words regrding the CIA and puts in perspective his background as a well of child in Suburban Schaumberg.

http://www.myleftwin...

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
Yes Stu, your diary is a classic of the genre, no doubt (1.00 / 1)
it should have been frontpaged not this one...I think Mr. Holland got a bit of a boost from white liberal guilt...but then got taken back down again...hmmm, just like in real life...

[ Parent ]
Me me meEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (8.00 / 2)
Yeah, Me....I shoulda been front paged...mine was better....but Nooooooooooooooooooooo.

What about Me? What about Me?

I want to be a Front Pager....I wanna...I wanna.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
I know you do, I know you do. Me too (0.00 / 0)
In fact we all do, if we are being honest...thats how the "man" keeps us all in line, so easily....manipulating our desires like we are nothing but Pavlov's dogs who can type...

{:o)


[ Parent ]
If Kos is now representing the left (0.00 / 0)
then this is the epitaph of the American Left:

[ . . . ] I don’t think it’s a very partisan thing to want a stable world.  And even if you’re protecting American interests, I mean that can get ugly at times, but generally speaking I think their hearts in the right place.  As an organization their heart is in the right place.  I’ve never had any problem with the CIA.  I’d have no problem working for them . .

"White Man's Burden" for the 21st century. From the refugee from El Salvador.

'What can I do?' - SiCKO


I think Kos is trying to bring down the Democratic Party. (0.00 / 0)
I've often thought that after corralling a lot of power for himself, Markos will throw the 2008 election to the Republicans for whom he admittedly worked until 2001. 

His next big opportunity to throw the 2008 election to the Republicans will be when the Democratic candidates foolishly attend the YearlyKos Democratic candidates' forum, in Chicago this August.  That's where it will become known to the general public that 69% of participants at DailyKos are either atheists or agnostics. 

Of course, people have a right to disbelieve as they choose, but American voters aren't going to care about that. The Democratic candidates who appear at YearlyKos are going to be branded as atheists and that, alone, is going to make it impossible for any of them to get elected president in 2008.

I certainly wish my candidate, Hillary Clinton, would make it clear that she's not going to attend this atheist/agnostics conference.  She knows that  Markos campaigned for Se. Henry Hyde, the man who impeached Hillary's her husband.  Markos is NOT going to let YearlyKos contribute to the front-running candidacy of Hillary Clinton, but will only use it as an opportunity to hurt Clinton's front-running campaign, which will hurt the Democratic Party's chances overall.

 

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
You do realize Hillary is a fruity neocon and ... (9.00 / 1)
A FORMER REPUBLICAN?

C'mon man. Clinton/Obama is scheduled for launch. Iran and Pakistan are being threatend by both sides. This is serious.


[ Parent ]
I find his statement about being unemployed quite plausible (0.00 / 0)
It takes awhile for a young lawyer to find his "niche."  You see, we have so many f ing lawyers in this country, its a wonder we aren't all in jail by now...except for those of us who win huge lawsuits after being maimed by unscupulous physicians, who are generally speaking, beholden only to themselves as a profession.

Ask John Edwards about the monetary benefits of being a lawyer.

And more and more of the best and brightest graduating law school and passing the bar every day.

Makes you wonder what this country might be like if all that brain power wasnt so concentrated on such a narrow field of specialty.

For instance, Japan has far fewer lawyers than the US....while we were cracking the law books, they were figuring out ways to make better cars than General Motors and Ford.

Seems like they succeeded. No amount of smart lawyering is gonna save GM.

What would the state of education in this country be if many of the lawyers had opted for teaching elementary school instead?

There I go, dreaming utopian dreams...see I really am a liberal after all....


Was this posted in Kos? (0.00 / 0)
I read it daily, and I never read this diary there! I think a lot of people would be interested and very concerned with the fact that he "was" a CIA agent.

The way he speaks about the CIA wanting to do good reflects the fact that he is probably still working for them. And that is very scary.

A Reagan democrat my ass!  Crashing the Gates?  Indeed!


I can't post this at DailyKos because I have been banned there. (0.00 / 0)
But anyone who wants to post this diary at DailyKos is welcomed to do so, and anyone who wants to post links to this diary at DailyKos is also encouraged to do so.

But nobody will, because they would be banned from DailyKos if they made this information available to the readers there.  DailyKos is full of Markos sycophants who will not tolerate any criticism of Markos, and now they've even begun defending the CIA, because that is the only way they know to defend Markos now that Markos' connection to the CIA has become public knowledge.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."


[ Parent ]
Change (6.00 / 2)
Markos has matured and has changed his view of the world, isn't this what bloggers want? Aren't they writing so that those wandering in the dark will see the light?

So he discovered new information and changed his mind about politics. Good.

What hasn't changed (yet) is his tendency towards libertarianism and a bit of intolerance towards dissent. On the other hand he makes the goals of his site fairly explicit - to elect democrats.

That his site has grown more than he anticipated and that it has taken on other roles that he can't completely control only shows that life is full of surprises and he is still learning how to manage his empire.

He makes mistakes, but he is willing to learn from them. Now compare this to GWB and the pirates running the country.

It's fine if you want his full bio to be public, but don't try to use it for implied character assassination.

----Policies not Politics
Daily Quiet Image


This is not "implied" character assassination. This is ACTUAL character assassination! (0.00 / 0)
Since Moulitsas is connected to the CIA, I hope I don't get "extraordinarily renditioned" for attacking him so often.

"Only after we change that which seemed essential do we realize how natural the "new normal" really is and how inevitable it always was."

[ Parent ]
Kos never worked for The Company (8.00 / 9)
One of my responsibilities as an Elder of Zion and Chief of Mossad is to handle all personnel decisions for our wholly-owned subsidiary, the CIA (we affectionately call it "the Playpen," in Hebrew of course).  And while Kos did apply, he never made it through the approval process. The major impediment was the height requirement.  He was too short.  He also is too short to ride The Beast at King's Island, but that's neither here nor there.

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

BTW, let the public record reflect: (6.00 / 1)
francislholland has replaced roysol on donkeytail's top ten MLW diarists who should be frontpaged more often...roysol has been bumped to number 11, mainly due to inactivity in the diary department...but he's still a solid member of donkeytail's second top ten....

Plame worked for CIA (7.50 / 2)
..and she's a good one.

Larry C. Johnson and Ray McGovern are ex-CIA guys, right? And they are some of our best allies.

CIA has done some terrible stuff, but usually at the command of high-ups. It's not the fault of rank-and-file, find-the-nukes kind of CIA folk.

Wes Clark was the Supreme Commander of NATO and a Reagan guy, but is doubtless on the left now.

Both the left and the right have moved right, making the right unbearable for some people. John Aravosis of Americablog was also a GOP once, if I recall him saying so.

If you are warning that Markos may still be working for CIA, either to collect info or to shape discourse, I guess there's no way to refute that. Anything's possible.

But I don't think it's accurate to say that because someone was a GOP once, or worked for the CIA once means they can't be sincerely on the moderate/left (as kos is) now. People evolve.


I have no problem with "find-the-nukes" people (0.00 / 0)
I have a huge problem with secret agencies influencing domestic politics.  It's bad enough when they do it abroad.  Taking out Mossadegh in 1953 has led to lots of problems.


[ Parent ]
What a load of A fishy story (0.00 / 0)
1. Anybody who thinks you can get to Clandestine during an interview period (no internship) also probably thinks it's possibe to become Director of the CIA without ever working there.

2. The comments by the owner at the top accuse Mr. Holland of committing what's known as cointelpro. Now let not the irony pass over your heads regarding a story where someone who claims another is a mole is accused of counter intelligence.

3. The edit of the title is extremely suspicious. I'm willing to accept that some blog owners are spooked by being associated with the fringe. But still it's suspicious.

4. A guy who's got no money being picky?

Amd yes folks it is possible to trust Miss Plame. She worked on specific duties. Miss Plame as far as we know is not a mole.


'American' Chauvinists Living In The Land Of Make Believe (0.00 / 0)
The idea that the CIA would have assets in crucial spots of the so-called Left is something that most liberals dismiss out of hand but logical induction tells us it must be true.  In the Kos write-up Holland makes some assumptions. 

Stop debating that stupid point.  It's obvious.

Holland's implications could be true.  I say could to highlight the fact that the vast majority of the naysayers here refuse to consider this possibility. 

You think it is Holland that has lost credibility but it is you all that are reacting dogmatically.  It is you all who appear so very out of touch with reality.

If you want Disneyland, go there and leave thinking about serious matters to adults.  The United States is a f/king empire.  The notion that the CIA, NSA and other domestic terrorist organizations that call themselves 'intelligence agencies' would employ or seek to employ key figures like Kos is as obvious as the Dick Cheney's blood-soaked bib.

Kos admits to being interested in working for this terrorist organization.
He states that he would have no political or ethical problem working for this terrorist organization.
These two facts alone, forget all the rest--these two things by themselves is enough for Markos Moulitsas to be thrown under the bus by any serious left wing standard.

Memo to self-styled leftists: The CIA is a terrorist organization.

If nothing else that Holland asserts is true, nothing else, this information alone is damning.  Or it should be.

You guys/gals need to get some perspective.


Surprised (0.00 / 0)
I did feel a bit surprised that he had been interviewing with them in that period but not too surprised in the end. I think the only truly important part of this is kos' not true  that  the CIA is a liberal organization.
Regards,
Earvin James
san diego real estate

Bang Bang (7.00 / 1)
DA's Banhammer came down upon his head,

ahh, c'mon, you know the rest!!

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
I don't know (7.00 / 2)
I was kind of enjoying the trip down memory lane.

Most of the comments were still tagged "new" because I'd ignored this shit the first time around.

Weird how the spammers sometimes post to the f/p and sometimes dredge up old garbage.

Insert witty quote here.


[ Parent ]


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