Question of the Day - 9/11 Conspiratorial Can o' Worms

But you know me... I can't swear to that, heh.

What to do the "day after".

They are gearing up to do something horrible.. .AGAIN.

Katrina
Outings
Global Warming Apathy
The killing of science and medical cures
Killing the seperation of church of and state
TORTURE!

The evidence just keeps mounting up. Evidence the media and the Democrats refuse to look at.

How can I NOT think this country did it to themselves. And then how can I NOT think they won't do it again.

"My wife and I, transfixed in front of a TV as the horror of 9/11 unfolded, watched as the topmost undamaged floors of the WTC South Tower started to gradually lean (rotate) in the direction of the damage due to impact.  In an instant, the rotation stopped, and that which was rotating began to fall, as if only under the influence of gravity!  The fulcrum was no longer there.  I blurted out," My God, they wired the building!"

--Mike Hawryluk, Professor Emeritus of Physics and former Division Chairman, Suffolk County Community College, NY

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix

What were they doing exactly?

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

I've seen enough military in the streets and enough of the police/security. Democracy and Freedom definitely is on the march.. marching right out of my sight.

And hey, thanks for not biting my head ofF or saying I should move to some redder areas. :)


"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix

I believe that the government's inefficiency allowed these terrorists to train in the United States (much of which was done before Bush came to office).

I believe that government agencies massively fumbled the ball on coordinating intelligence, because of (pick your reason):

A.  Massive Incompetence.
B.  Actual Concern about crossing legal limits (CIA/FBI)
C.  Protecting bureaucratic Fiefdoms
D.  Refusal to break "status quo" thinking
E.  All of the above

OBL...meh...not so much. 

I do believe the current administration and their lackeys have used this tragedy to consolidate executive power and to publicly embrace repressive activities.  Mind you, I firmly believe that the government had the capability and willpower to perform these repressive acts before, it is just now they didn't have to be as secretive. 

I believe that the current administration was already concentrating so much on Iraq, so that this type of action flew (so to speak) under the radar.

I don't believe they'll do it again, because I don't believe they did it in the first place.  I think that the politics of fear are played by BOTH sides.  I will repeat what I said when this "letter" came out the other day, that I would be more inclined to believe all these folks if they would provide their "massive evidence."  FLH has evidence, do you believe him?  All this letter shows me is that people who the Left respects can either be duped, or are willing to play the "Politics of Fear" game.  Kind of takes the moral high ground away, huh?

I do belive that Tower 7 either collapsed due to structural damage, or was imploded for safety reasons.

My main reason for my beliefs is that these people have proven themselves to be completely incompetent, whether it was the long time Civil Servants or the Political Hacks running things.  I cannot believe that the specious evidence available and the massive supposition that supports the conspiracy theories is all that these fools would have allowed to leak out.  The haven't gotten away with anything else, this was bigger, they're just not good enough.


DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

I had believed that they would attack both Iran  and Syria long before now.  If Iraq had not turned into such a clusterfuck I think they would have done that.

Now Cheney is chomping at the bit on Iran, and I think that law that would make Bush Dictator to Infinity was a big red flag.

I won't be at all surprised if there's another attack before the next elections.  The Bush Cabal has already seen how useful a tool 9/11 was.  I don't believe they have one shred of humanity, and don't doubt that they would either allow another attack or orchestrate one, if need be.

Here There Be Monsters.

I believe they knew about it and did nothing to stop it.

they did the deed.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

But there is too much stupidity surrounding the events leading up to 9/11.  And that is what has undermined the credibility of the official story.

This should not be a matter of belief, but a matter of evidence.  Which means that someone needs to be empowered to find the facts, regardless of where they lead.  So far, no politician has the guts to demand this.  None.

In the absence of the evidence, all we have is a very long list of questions that must be answered.  And an amazing long list of amazing claims to what we ought to be believing.

The fact of the matter is that the folks who know what happened are not telling and the folks who are telling what happened don't know.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

Added:  July 03, 2006
From:  retyred
On March 4, 2001...6 mos. before 9/11... On March 4, 2001...6 mos. before 9/11... The Lone Gunman TV series aired on FOX TV.

The pilot episode was about a commercial airliner having it's navigation system hijacked and being flown into the World Trade Center via remote control by a covert group within the US government in order to create an alleged terrorist attack on the US.....Sound just a bit too familiar?

It's my understanding Fox pulled this out of the re-run loop. I think it 9/11 was a false flag operation ...and we can expect more such "operations" in the future.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

Too many fucking coincedences.

Marvin Bush...
The flying Bin Laden's family out...
The explosions heard by fire fighters and other journalists

This government blew up the WTC so that they could lead by fear. And Congress, The Senate, upcoming Dems... won't even try to investigate it. They won't even try to STOP BUSH and his madness and destruction of EVERYTHING.

He's destroyed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights... He's destroyed lives. What's a few buildings?

And they are going to do it again.

This country will be "attacked" by the Bush Regime. I do not doubt they will NUKE an American city (you can bet it will be a blue one) and he will dictate that we are all living under martial law.

I no longer can afford to not believe so. I now have to live my life as such.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix

The fact (?) of the "stand down order" on 9/11 became the clincher for me. Hmm.

The monsters were just by happenstance were conducting terrorist "war games" and as the story goes Norad was on stand-down...i.e. planes did not scramble to intervene, stop the Saudi "terrorists". Fuck.

It took me a couple of years to really get my mind around this thing. Not wanting to believe the unthinkable. But after having watched these guys in action over the years?

They're capable of anything.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

Article

All that rubble... remember of how it was disposed of?

What finally clenched it for me was not the Popular Mechanics trying to debunk all the others who had questions, tapes, ideas... but Marvin Bush.. .

Marvin Bush having access to the towers the way he did. His contract with them expiring... 9/10

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace." ~Jimi Hendrix

I am really ashamed to see such total B.S. being spouted on this site. 

"This government blew up the WTC"

What total B.S.

And in line with my opinion, I'm going to condemn it as such.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, even if unsupported by fact, but they are not entitled to respect for holding those B.S. opinions.

I did however, read David Ray Griffin's books. What he did was to lay out the facts as he knew them from news reports etc.etc. and let the reader find his own conclusion.

I also find the guy has loads of integrity.

See his vitae here

The 9/11 Commission Report: A 571-Page Lie 

In discussing my second 9/11 book, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions, I have often said, only half in jest, that a better title might have been "a 571-page lie." (Actually, I was saying "a 567-page lie," because I was forgetting to count the four pages of the Preface.) In making this statement, one of my points has been that the entire Report is constructed in support of one big lie: that the official story about 9/11 is true.

Another point, however, is that in the process of telling this overall lie, The 9/11 Commission Report tells many lies about particular issues. This point is implied by my critique's subtitle, "Omissions and Distortions." It might be thought, to be sure, that of the two types of problems signaled by those two terms, only those designated "distortions" can be considered lies. ]

by Dr. David Ray Griffin
9/11 Visibility Project
Sunday, May 22, 2005

A key figure in the Hearst Publishing Popular Mechanics 9/11: Debunking the Myths piece is a guy named Benjamin Chertoff.

If the last name rings a bell it should, he is the cousin of the director of Heimat Security.

As AG would say..."You can look it up".

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

One-Line Bio for Benjamin Chertoff

Freelance journalist for the digital age. Please e-mail me for contact information.

Biography

I'm going to defer to a higher authority here: Wikipedia.

Contact

  * Email Address: Email Me
  * Website: http://www.benjaminc...
  * PGP Key

In case you're wondering, I AM NOT Michael Chertoff's cousin. IF we are related, it's so distant I can't figure out how. Nevertheless, I've never talked to him, never met him and nobody I know in my family has ever met him.

This from Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory by David Ray Griffin.

In a blockbuster of a last chapter, Griffin in Chapter 4 destroys Popular Mechanics' Debunking 9/11 Myths, a short book expanding a 2005 article in that magazine. He starts out with a thorough deconstruction of Senator John McCain's propagandistic Foreword, and then reviews the history of the involvement of Benjamin Chertoff, cousin of Michael Chertoff, Director of Homeland Security, in the book's production, and the fact that the editors of the book deny this relationship.

This from Portland Indy Media:

But who was the senior researcher-writer for this Popular Mechanics hit piece? None other than the cousin of the head of Homeland Security and Bush crony, Michael Chertoff, whose agency with its massive powers and funding was created thanks to the events of September 11! Benjamin Chertoff, when asked by 911 researcher, Christopher Bollyn, what his relationship was to the head of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, responded that he wasn't sure. On coast-to-coast AM with Art Bell the first week of March, 2005, Ben Chertoff again repeated that he wasn't sure if he was related to Michael Chertoff, or not. But his mother, Judy, when called at her home, was proud to say that Benjamin Chertoff, her son, was a cousin of Michael Chertoff.

And there is more you should know about Popular Mechanics and the History Channel: they are both owned by Hearst Publications, a company with a reputation for hyping dangers to promote government wars, notably the Spanish American War, where the name Hearst Publications became synonymous with yellow journalism. 

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

---

It could be as simple as disbelieving that Osama bin Laden had those kind of resources at his disposal, or that such a simple and (dare I say it?) elegant plan could not be carried out by such "backward barbarians." I seriously doubt, however, that they cynically allowed it to happen for whatever political gain they might get from it. My reasons are numerous, and would require the rest of cyberspace to get into it. Suffice it to say that it's not logical, no matter who's logic you employ.

I believe it was a convenient coincidence that PNAC called for such an event, and it was provided for them, a confluence of two threads of history.

I do believe, however, bin Laden has another attack (no quotes) in mind for America, to coincide with this election cycle. I do not believe Bush will exercise junta-powers, as tempted as he might be to do so.

All that said, I've got my dual citizenship. My daughter will have hers shortly. It's fair to say I've pursued these on the off-chance I'm wrong.

Tower 7, I will always believe was made to implode because of the secret op's headquarters and proofs therein.  I think it was an after the fact cover our asses thing, when they saw how bad it had become.

What total B.S. 

You are entitled to whatever beliefs you want, but you are not entitled to whatever facts. 

The facts are that Building 7 was inhabitated by a lot of private businesses, including my clients.  I talked to people who were every day workers on multiple floors of that building up until the day it fell.  I've had to deal with lost document problems as a result.  And I can assure that none of those people saw any evidence of the mining of the building for implosion on their floors.

Do you know how tricky it is to implode a building?  Usually they first gut the building, removing all the improvements, and then they attack explosives to every support column on every floor.  There is not a single shred of evidence that this happened to Building 7.  None at all.  This building was evacuated in the morning and fell in the afternoon. 

As for your assertion that the "secret ops headquarters" was in the building.  The CIA had offices on one floor of that building.  The CIA obviously has offices outside of Langley, and there is nothing sinister in that. Do you really think that they are competent enough to pull off this secret op to take down the WTC and blame it on Bin Laden, but too incompetent to clear out such limited offices before the attack without the necessity to implode a building?  Talk about an inelegant and incompetent solution!

Occam's razer cuts your suggestion that the CIA "imploded" the building absolutely laughable.

Building 7 fell after two massive towers next to it collapsed undermining its structural integrity, and starting fires that further undermined its integrity.  The building was built over a power station and it may be that resulting unique design issues with the building could have been a factor. 

But, implosiion? 

That's just total B.S.

You can have your opinions, but they aren't grounded in reality or common sense.

Is it not blocks from the other 2?

Yes, normally when they destroy a building, they empty it, but DUH, they couldn't exactly do that could they?

And do these engineers you hear from explain how long it would take to mine a building?

Becuase the floors were occupied, with tenants, and the building wasn't gutted, how exactly where the explosives put in the place on the support beams? 

I've seen documentaries on imploding a gutted building, and it was not an easy or quick operation. 

This is just wacko.

Here's a picture:

It's worth noting that One Liberty Plaza, which was significantly farther from the destruction, was damaged by debris from the WTC collapse as were other bulidings around WTC 7.

See those blue lines on the right side?  They are city blocks.

Count them.  2.

But ... so?  I'm not here to debate what you meant by "blocks," how to measure that, or to discuss how tiny NYC blocks really are, but whether 7 was effected by the collapse of 1 and 2.

The picture makes clear WTC 7 was clearly effected by the collapse of 1 and 2.  The fact that 5 and 6 became infernos didn't help much either. 

And, remember, the bullet passed through Kennedy's back, just to the right of his spine, and about 5 inches below his collar line...
.
.
.
Oh, wait, wrong conspiracy!

LOL.

I'm kidding!  I'm kidding!  I'm kidding!

{Karmafish runs away so as not to get hit in the head by Diane.}




Lord of the Karmafishes

But would the payoff in smashing the entire illusion be worth it if we can ever make it happen. We may be able to reemerge from the rabbit hole before it becomes a grave.

Thanks for bringing this stuff up.

EE
 

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

I pray they were not aware of the scope of destruction, but I will always believe they allowed this nightmare to happen. The "proof in the pudding" is how they USED and are STILL USING this to forward their world domination by the corporate elite.

If this is an example of what passes as logic today, then our world is in desperate straits.

The fact that Bush capitalized on a tragedy is not evidence he caused it.  The fact that FDR capitalized on Pearl Harbor is not evidence he "allowed it" to happen.  This kind of ill-reasoned conspiracy theory is again worthy of nothing but being a target of mirth.

That you recognize the logical flaws in your argument but continue to assert puts you in league with other faith based reasoners.  Do you really want to be in that company?

Diane condemns the exploitation of 9/11 by the administration in its efforts to undermine civil liberties, habeas, and the Constitution.  That is the heart of this diary.

And that is most certainly not bullshit.

Diane notes that 11 of the 15 hijackers were Saudis, not Iraqis, and wonders why Bin Ladin family members were so quickly removed from the country?  The implicit question is were they or were they not questioned?

This is also not bullshit.

Does she leap to conclusions concerning Tower 7?  Yup.  She sure does.  But she also recognizes that she doesn't have much evidence, that she merely has suspicions, thus the self-conscious reference to tin-foil.

Does she leap to conclusions when she says, as you quote above, that the administration allowed 9/11 to happen.  Yes.  That is also a leap to conclusion.

But given the fact that the administration does seem to have disregarded Clinton administration warnings in regards terrorism, as Diane points out, it is not unreasonable for people to wonder to what extent the administration "allowed" 9/11 by failing to act.

This is a very good, but flawed, diary.

I think that you are overstating your case.




Lord of the Karmafishes

Diane condemns the exploitation of 9/11 by the administration in its efforts to undermine civil liberties, habeas, and the Constitution.

No one here disagrees with this.  But that ain't the point of this diary.  As the comments on this diary reflect, the point of this diary is start a discussion about blaming the "government" for the WTC.

Mine is the first answer on this essay.  I challenge you to refute it.

Mind you, Diane knows how I feel about many of these conspiracy theories, I viciously (again D, I am sorry for my attitude that day) attacked a bunch of conspiracy theories about the proposed concentration camps.  I used facts, because I was familiar with a number of the areas listed and because the sites that the proponents linked to were very outdated or completely misinformed.

Unfortunately, your tone will tend to make people ignore the valid points you make.  I noticed above that somebody pointed to a FOX TV program which allegedly spilled the beans 6 months prior to 9/11.  Of course, I'm sure that the spokesman for all things conservative (Rupert) would have "accidentally" let that one slip through the cracks.  But nobody can see the fallacy in that assumption because they are determined to know what cannot be known.

It is all in how you do it.  You could have linked to the Wikipedia entry for Tower 7, which shows that it isn't "blocks away" or has many links to the first responder stories of that day, which tell that it burned for almost 4 hours, about the gashes in the structure from the falling debris...etc..etc..but you chose to do it with vitriol.

IMO, a poor choice (see, I'm learning).

On this very site I'm not the only person to be annoyed by the letter that Diane has referenced in her essay.  It is typical "Politics of Fear" bullshit, regardless of who signed it.  If they can't or won't produce the "massive evidence" it either means they don't actually have any, or that they are attempting to play the Homeland Security Color Coded Warning Game.

Either way, it is disappointing (but possibly inevitable) that to combat the Right, the Left is learning to playe the game.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

Thanks for pointing out it is not a real letter in wednesday's open today.

I was just amazed the spokespeople for the Left would put out something like "massive evidence" without exposing it.

So, a hoax, huh?

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

No one else has anything on it, am waiting for more news about it.

For now, I retract.

  I carefully worded the comment in the open thread because I didn't want anyone to take it as the next big undiscovered scandal. I guess I was weaselly and unclear.

  It's all too easy to believe the most outrageous stuff because my personal bullshit meter red lined years ago...

I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult. E. B. White

The voices on this diary are hard for me to distinguish from the "militia" and "black helicopter" folks, and I fully expect to see the conversation flower into a discussion of the best survivalist strategies and weapons choices.

Yours are not liberal or leftist voices.

It was nice enough for you calling BULLSHIT, rather than offering your own viewpoint without insult, but now you lower to play the "If you don't think like me you are not liberal" meme.

I value your intellect but your bedside manner sucks, dude.

Have a nice day ! 8-)

Lighten up, dude!  I'm sorry you had friends and clients in Tower 7.  But none of these folks had anything to do with that.

BTW I agree with 1/2 your first statement in this last comment, but the rest of your stuff is a bit harsh.

I'm the fucking survivalist around here, and even I don't think the Bushies did it.

And I'll have an M1-D.


DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

Is it possible to be a survivalist and a leftist?  If you say so, I guess I'll believe it, but I sure ain't seen it in the survivalist hotspots of the West where I've been.  Quite the opposite.  The survivalists in Grant's Pass have given us such non-leftist voices as "World Net Daily."  So forgive me for stereotyping.

And, no, I'm not against guns.  But I am against nuts who want guns to fight the government because I've seen the militias and I remember Oklahoma.

I feel your level of experience is wanting.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

Was the government involved in 9/11? 

I don't think so, but the administration has, because of its constant deceptions, given people good reason to wonder.

Furthermore, nothing that Diane has written indicates that, because of all this, she is not a proponent "of the value of goverment in promoting social welfare..."

She clearly hit a nerve for you, because now you're the one leaping to conclusions.

Lord of the Karmafishes

This whole thing is much deeper than it is being portrayed as, there is a very long history of global criminality and the pursuit of capitalism, empire and hegemony and any serious researcher knows that the story of 9/11 started a long time prior to the days that those planes hit the buildings.

I would strongly recommend taking a look at the shadow government that Cheney and Rummy were so involved in during the Reagan years, also Iran Contra, BCCI, Team B, Rex 84, PNAC and Edward Luttwak's playbook for a coup de'tat.

This whole thing is HUGE and in my opinion the attacks weren't the greatest crime of that particular day but rather the usurping of the entire U.S. government by a rogue network using 9/11 as cover.

What else can explain it? Are you telling me that a guy in a cave on dialysis and 19 losers could defeat our entire air defense system, the intelligence apparatus and do so through intimate knowledge of war games and hijack drills that were being run simultaneously on the very same day? Hell maybe Bruce Willis can train a bunch of roughnecks to become astronauts and blow up the asteroid but this entire story stinks to high heaven.

At the very least we had incompetence and moles that had penetrated intelligence and at the worst it was a coup de'tat by a hignly organized, highly ideological, multi-national rogue group of criminals intent at overthrowing the legitimate (and I use that word very loosely considering the 2000 stolen election) government of the United States in order to pursue a foreign policy of regional domination in the Middle East while concurrently destroying America from within.

Read your history folks, shit like this is the norm rather than the exception. The only thing that has changed are the names and the technology.

Just my two cents

EE


"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

And to those with excess, er, "vitriol"... consider expending it someplace else, eh?  It's one thing to disagree, quite another to insult/bash/ridicule/intimidate/etc... and I'll never understand why one would do such a thing in a place they like to visit regularly.  I believe the question of the day was what YOU think about 9/11, not what you think about what someone else thinks...

Even I question the 'truth' about 9/11

The trick is to do this the correct way so as to not be hit with that dastardly pejorative 'conspiracy theorist' which is what one is always called when questioning official accounts that are bullshit.

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

I keep coming back to maybe the best quote in American history, offered even before America was a nation. 

"Facts are stubborn things."
  --John Adams

So far as I can see, most, if not all, of the facts help confirm the theory that the attacks of 9/11 were planned by a terrorist cell affiliated with and financed by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, which I have always understood functions more like a terrorist venture capital firm than an actual terrorist group in the conventional sense.

I would urge everyone to pick up a copy of The Age of Sacred Terror which not only gives a fascinating history of the evolution of modern terrorism, but points out how the Bush Administration dropped the ball and rather conclusively demonstrates that 9/11 was al-Qaeda's deal.  That book, by the way, was written (unlike most of the goofy bullshit floating around out there) by people who have the virtue of actually knowing what they're talking about.

(This is not to say that most of what Diane says in her essay is not true, though I personally doubt that anything was deliberatly imploded.)

I think all the screaming about the "inside job" obscures the fundamental lessons of the whole thing.  It's a pretty clear manner of record that the Bush Administration had more than ample warning during the summer of 2001 that something was coming and it was going to involve airplanes.  They were caught completely with their pants down because of their own incompetence, arrogance, and complacency.

But, BOY, did they take full advantage of the aftermath for their own ends.

It's a common misconception that the Nazis burned the Reichstag down.  It's not true--rather they took brilliant advantage of the fact that a mentally unstable pyromaniac who happened to be both a foreigner and a communist perpetrated the deed.

You probably see where I'm headed with that, so there's no need to elaborate.  THAT is the true lesson of 9/11 and its aftermath.

In some sense, a case can be made that the Bush Administration "let" it happen.  They had all the dots there and all someone had to do was connect them, which obviously was not even attempted.  Still, I don't think they were like "We're going to let these terrorists fly planes into buildings and then we shall strike!"  No, rather, like the proto-Nazis they are, they were caught with their pants down, but recovered quickly and realized here was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to reshape the country as they had so long wanted.

And as a sort of aside before I silence my tediousness, does anyone think this incompetent gang of fools really had the skill and daring to plan and execute something like this, then cover it up successfully?  I'm reminded of the South Park episode where Bush reveals himself to be the 9/11 mastermind, "Yes, it was only the most complicated plan in history, and I pulled it off!"

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present...As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.

They knew something was going to happen, but ignored it, never (i pray) knowing the scope.

Bush is a butt-monkey for Cheney, Wolfy, and the rest of the pnac group, who may be evil, but are no slouches mentally.

There are many holes in the tower 7 story that don't fit in my book.

However, the way they used it, I do wonder (and yes fear THEM, not some imaginary terrorist) if they will relinquish their power.  Another attack would make the May 9th signing very very dangerous, and keep them in power, and open the door to Iran.
***********************
My VERY first paragraph outlines my reason for writing this.  What kind of men would make us less safe, and destroy our freedoms by fear, instead of healing the country???
********************************

It's all in the framing, for fucks sakes, Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11, yet they led the people to believe there was and THERE WE ARE.

I am no conspiracy theorist, yet I refuse to buy their official explanation of that event.

I can question it without being a complete idiot.

Take the blinders off and stop living in denial, things are not as they seem and never have been.

EE


"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

Indianapolis - The federal government is boarding IndyGo buses in the name of homeland security. Indianapolis is the latest city to jump on board the program which will consist of random checks of passengers on city buses.

It's a procedure normally seen at the airport: TSA security inspectors and federal marshals going through passengers' belongings. Now you will see them at IndyGo Bus stops.

"Next they'll be knocking on my door at home," mused another.

"Money?"

Why because heroin makes you lazy an stupid, it also takes away hunger... What do you do with a populace that is out of work, homeless and poor? Let them use smack!

"Money?"

If it didn't pay, how wild would the theories be?  How's that for a conspiracy theory?

People scrambling to take advantage of the anxiety caused by an absence of coherent and trusted information.

How very American!

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

Bush and his handlers aren't creative, they're reactive.  They wouldn't have had the brains to pull off something like this.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future

The problem is mass denial that any rogue faction in this government could be so cynical as to pull something like this off.

Come on, quit being a child...read your history.

Then in a television addled nation of brain dead, numbed out zombies with millions who believe that they are going to fly up to heaven when the neocons start their nuclear war what can be expected?

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

If the last name rings a bell it should, he is the cousin of the director of Heimat Security.

The one thing that I truly hate are the coincidence theorists who are so smug, arrogant and entrenched in their certitude that they are unable to even contemplate ideas not compatible with their silly and naive little worldviews.

Deep Politics is the term for the way that the system really functions.

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken

Also, aluminum planes don't meld into steel and concrete buildings, they crash against them.  Moreover, the government (NIST) claim, based on analysis of the videos, that the planes were travelling at 460 mph (North Tower "Flight 11") or 550 mph (South Tower "Flight 175).  This is impossible.  The top cruising speed of a Boeing 767 at over 30,000 feet is 560 mph.  At lower altitudes, the plane could not got that fast, and if it did, would shake itself apart. 

The high velocity is used to explain why the planes would penetrate the buildings, which is ridiculous not only because the velocity is impossible but because the velocity would only increase the rate of deformation of the aluminum airframe, which is a self-limiting mechanism on transfer of load to the steel columns.  In other words, the softer aluminum airframe would grind itself to pieces against the buildings, not meld into the building and disappear inside.