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Goodbye, Cruel Jews

by: Miss Mannered

Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 13:20:08 PM PST




CONTENT DISCLAIMER

The views and opinions expressed in the articles or comments in the Members' Essays Section of this site are those of the commenters or authors and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions held by My Left Wing. The editor of My Left Wing oversees and administers the site based on her editorial policy but should not be held accountable for all of the information you may find on this web site.

My Left Wing does not warrant the accuracy, timeliness or completeness of the information contained in its Members' Essays section. If you have a particular complaint about something you've found on this web site, please feel free to post your own essays or comments.

Go Here for further discussion on anti-Semitism at MLW

and here for MLW's Policy Regarding Hate Speech, an addendum to this one.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


I did not come to this site to fight in the Jew Wars.

I came to join with MSOC, in her words, to rage against the lying of the right, against injustice and cruelty.  Instead, I found injustice, cruelty and hate directed at me.

I left, then, earlier this year, not because I was reluctant to engage in verbal combat with the people who insisted on making themselves my enemies [I also post on PFF, after all], but because I discovered myself descending to their level, from rational discourse to insults and invective.

Several months ago, at the suggestion of MSOC, I returned to this site, resolved that I would never again descend to the moral cesspit occupied by the haters.  I would willingly engage in civil and rational discourse with anyone of good will, but if they refused, I would ignore them.

Unfortunately, the same persons whose emnity and hostility were so pervasive before immediately resumed their campaign to discredit me, not only rejecting my overtures of peace, but mocking them.




Miss Mannered :: Goodbye, Cruel Jews




These hateful persons are Jews.  At one point, I would have disregarded this fact, but I no longer can.  This site has been nothing but the battleground of the Jew Wars, and it is not possible to escape the toxic fallout.

Some persons here have posted remarks offensive to Jews, remarks that no one would have regarded seriously if not for the Jews, as they stridently identify themselves, calling for banning and lynch mobs and denunciation of the posters whose words have offended them.  They have made it very clear that they are willing to destroy this site, to make it a barren no-man's-land where no civil discourse can survive, unless the persons they charge with antisemitism are silenced and driven out.

I know that these Jews will continue to conduct their hate campaigns with impunity as well as self-righteousness, because the people in charge of this site regard them as friends, but they are false, treacherous friends, willing to destroy the site that has befriended them.

And these same persons, these Jews, have not only continued their malicious attacks on me, but others, also Jews, have joined their Hate Squad, solely on the grounds that they are Jews and have been offended by someone, and thus arrogate to themselves the right to hate and insult a person who has done them no harm and no offense.

And the consequence is this:  I now find myself, for the first time in my life, hating Jews.  I find myself hating the Jews on this site, both the Jews who have conducted their malicious campaign against me for so long and the Jews who have stood by in silent solidarity with them, never saying a word against their vile attacks, their cruelty and ugliness.

I find myself thinking that Proximity perhaps has the right idea, that Jews regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews.  That Jews will always stand with other Jews no matter their guilt, and against non-Jews, no matter their innocence.  The face of Jews has become unspeakably ugly in my sight, because of the ugliness of the Jewish haters here.

And this is not a place where I wish to be, a place that breeds such hate, where such thoughts come upon me.  The Jews who hate me may have surrendered their souls to the darkness, but I refuse to do the same, to surrender to hate.  They are only a few evil-minded, hateful people, and I am leaving this place to them, to conduct their pogroms, to drag it down into the moral cesspit of the Jew Wars.

I only feel sorry for MSOC, betrayed by those she considered her friends, but who are willing to destroy everything she created here, just to spread hate.




Tags: , , , , , (All Tags)
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Goodbye, Cruel Jews | 187 comments
Don't leave. Stay. (5.80 / 10)

Stay and fight.

Fight these people, and fight the hatred that their actions have bred in you.

Stay and fight.

Leave and the hatred will remain, unresolved.

Stay.

There is work to be done, and I know that YOU know that all Jews are not hateful.

Don't let these few harm you in this way. If you do, then their self fulfilling action-as-prophecy is once again realized, and weaker, more easily swayed Jews will join them.

"See? They HATE us" they will say. And things will get worse, not better.

Stay.

And fight.

Yourself, if no one else.

NEVER leave a battlefield in defeat and anger.

Better to go out on your shield.

Really.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


Likudniks Not Representative Of Jewish Views (6.00 / 2)
For what it's worth there is a gradual renouncing of the hatemongering and intimidation of neocon Nazis by American Jews - who they do NOT represent as a whole, they are only more shrill, better funded and well organized and have succeeded in miraculously brainwashing the chickenfried motherfuckers of the Rapture death cult that Armageddon is coming if they just support Likudnik aggression. I just ran across a piece by Eric Alterman that points this out Bad for the Jews that is worth reading. The ugliness and hostility that is being launched here like a turd floated in the holiday punchbowl by vitriol spewing big babies who are in denial that their savage attack on Jimmy Carter had the opposite effect is just more of the same bullying by a bunch of arrogant assholes used to having had it all their way for way too long. The jig's up, people are waking up and renouncing this happy horseshit and it's about fucking time.

I wouldn't let them chase you away, it is actually quite funny to start seeing them get hoisted on their own petards and left to bemoan the nuking of Iran that wasn't.

Just my two cents

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken


Oh Ed... (0.00 / 0)
as much as I love your rants, the only people who will mourn the "nuking of Iran that wasn't" are the silly bastards here who have bet the farm on it.

I've been hearing the diatribe about the invasion of Iran or the nuking of Iran for the past 2 years here.

Pluto, at least, in what I hope was chagrin and embarassment, had the good sense to withdraw after his/her claims of impending war in March 2006.  Stu is praying that there is still time, or that the next corporate weenie will prosecute the war and make him a prophet.

Of course, the real irony would be if it doesn't happen, the election 2008 goes on without a hitch, thus depriving the hand-wringers here of their doom and gloom scenarios (they've already been preparing the way, by deciding that no presidential candidate represents them so that they can just switch to a new boogie man).  No neo-con takeover, no Cheney as Darth Vader, no Bush as the bumbling emporer for life.

Most of the rest of us will be happy if it doesn't happen.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
Nice Try -- Tool (4.00 / 3)
What I said -- was if we didn't attack Iran by March 2006:

1. Iran would stop selling oil in USD. They did!

2. The USD would crash. It did!

And I made a fortune betting against the US because they didn't attack


Maryscott -- Shut down this website. NOW!


[ Parent ]
Simple to change your statements (0.00 / 0)
when you deleted all your diaries.

You said, at least in one, that we would invade before the Iran Oil Bourse opened, to prevent it.

Nice Try

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
DA... Pluto is no troll (3.50 / 2)
One away, but amazingly, it seems not everyone gets called on ratings abuse here, so I am asking you not to troll rate her. One away at eachother, but save the zero's for the real trolls.

[ Parent ]
Please Don't Even Think Of Shutting Us Down !!! (5.50 / 2)
I have blogged on over 100 sites; My Left Wing, and Culture of Life News are easily the best blogs on the internet. We need these places.

[ Parent ]
You have been proved right many, many times (0.00 / 0)
Particularly on issues where I once passionately disagreed with you. Mea culpa.

As to the site, closing it down and leaving it archival form seems the best solution. MSOC isn't in a place to actively participate in its management, and because this place is so closely identified with her, she's the only one who can in fact manage it (I once tried, and learned it was a bad idea to try.)

All things must pass. MLW had a glorious moment in the sun, but that moment has passed. Time to move on.


[ Parent ]
E... (0.00 / 0)
as I have said to you in the past, I also was wrong about a great many things.

Should this next round not make her able to participate and live fully again, I am ready to move on as well.

I get it now.


[ Parent ]
As DA says (5.00 / 1)
today in his assay: We're all bigots, can't help it.
Better to recognize it, see it as part of the human condition and part of your own condition.

So that you're not overwhelmed by it and can focus on what we have in common.

Still MM I find myself in the same place you are.  I'm not sure I can handle the inner turmoil.  I told Karma at some point that the discussions had softened me. But I think I was passing on to a next level.  My wife is Black. At some point she said to live with racism and overcome hatred first you have to know yourself in your soul what hating is.

Easier to run around with the idea you're a well willing liberal spirit.

I just finished the book that caused so much controversy.Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years by Israel Shahak. I'm sitting here stunned. I know it's quoted by David Duke and so on.  It doesn't matter. Its not relevant.  I need to discuss it with somebody.  Karma maybe if he can get through it??  

Don't Panic.


Well... (0.00 / 0)
I can't decide if you're being clever in your first line, or just a bad speller.

If it is the latter, then you deserve the 5 I gave you.

If it is the former, well...you failed....and have proven my point by beginning the ad hominem in this thread (even Imhotep didn't go there in my "assay").

Actually, either way...Thank You.  

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
Miss M (7.50 / 6)
I'm a "Jew."  I don't believe or practice and identify with the culture, but my mother was born a Jew, and I identify with Israel, so for the purposes of this discussion, I am a Jew.

Have I ever attacked you or descended to "their level" around you?  I distinctly recall defending you against Paul at least once, maybe more often.

I challenge you not to lump all of us together by our ethnicity.  It is not ethnicity that creates bigots, it is personality.

ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future


If you defended me, NP, I am sorry that I do not recall it (2.50 / 4)
but I certainly believe it of you.

It has been, most of all, the silence from others that led me to write this, the tacit approval of the abuse, and, worse, the actual celebration of it, in the name of Jews.

I intend to leave this place and return to a sane world, where Jews are people and individuals, not a howling mob.



[ Parent ]
This Is One Subject I Know A Hell Of A Lot About !!! (0.00 / 1)
Please come to the special page I have created on my blog just to explain why this has happened to you! Please hurry! (And Merry Christmas too!)

http://dailytrough.wordpress.c...


[ Parent ]
Anyway, Check Out What Went Down Here. It Should Explain A Lot! (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
Miss Mannered... (6.67 / 3)
I too am weary of being accused of being a Jew hater,(or any other kind of hater),'cause I don't hate easily. I'll not say I'm not capable of hate, I'm just as vulnerable as the next guy.

I was truly surprised when I asked what I thought was a valid question of one of the members here, only to be dismissed rather abruptly. My sin it seemed was rooted in a comment, (a bone of contention with this person), because I mis-read one of Prox's posts and apologized (to Prox) for it. I respect Proximity's gift of reason and language, I will not apologize for that. Nor do I think Prox is a Jew hater.

I remember when there was a mob trying to get rid of AG, Prox, (forgive me for not remembering all of them) and other out of the box thinkers.  

The people I respect most here are those of deep conviction, those who have nothing to prove to anyone other than speaking their own truth. Each has their own distinctive style and delivery. If I started naming them I would doubtless forget someone.

I hope you stick around, MM. I never really left MLW, but did duck out for some while because of the never ending hate fest, so I get what you mean. On the other hand, you well may need a break. Do what's good for you, ok?  :)

 

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL


Miss Mannered (11.00 / 1)
I admit, I didn't know how to take you at first, and it took a while to understand the dynamics of what was happening here.

I, for a long time avoided all i/p like the plague.  First most because I was not informed enough to form an opinion.

Secondly, because somehow if I weigh in people take it way too serious; I get barraged with emails like I am responsible for setting tone here.

So all Inoticed was the inevitable flame wars, if I had to.

But as I have read you more, I think you have valuable things to say, and hope you do not leave.

I don't agree with every word you utter, but again, I believe everyone should have their say, and I have learned much lately reading all of you.

I mean that sincerely.

d.


A history of "Cruel Jews" (1.08 / 12)
All of the accounts, and there aren't that many, agree on these facts.  The Christ was arrested by a large crowd including the chief priests sent by Caiphes, Scribes, Pharisees and elders of the people some of whom were carrying swords and clubs.  They took the Christ to the high priest Caiphas who called the Sanhedrin to order and then condemned the Christ to death on a number of charges.  For the death sentence to be carried out the Christ was taken to Herod for his approval.  He decline for lack of evidence and instructed that the Christ be taken to the Roman governer Pilate.  Pilate was the only authority who could approve of and then order an execution to be carried out.  Pilate decline to condemn the Christ, as Herod had done, for lack of evidence.  He even offered the gathered crowd an alternative victim.  The crowd would have no of it and screamed for the Christ's death.  Except for Pilate all of the other players in this life and death drama were Jews, including the Christ.  Miss Mannered your OK in my book and don't let the cruel Jews take you out like they did the Christ. Peace

Shocking (0.00 / 0)
No words.  This site is gone.

[ Parent ]
Do you find some (0.00 / 2)
factual issue?  I'm sure not.  Yours is simply a made up version of history that you carry around and spring on the uninformed.  What has gone is your own mind, good sir or madame.  Peace

[ Parent ]
Really? (5.50 / 2)
Is that what Hitler said as the shells fell around his bunker?  You folks have no place left to go...you've been kicked out of blog after blog you came here and ruined the place.  Go sputter in your Nazi prison scumbag.

[ Parent ]
You've begun to dredge (4.25 / 4)
the bottom of your soul and the dregs and demons that you find will be beyond your control.  Not only do you NOT answer the question, you hurl insults and nonsense to try and cover your inability to tell the truth.  And your veiled threats of bodily harm do not go unnoticed.  Who sir is more Hitleresque, the threatened or the threatener?  Peace

[ Parent ]
So you Lie (0.00 / 0)
"veiled threats of bodily harm"  where?  Name one.

[ Parent ]
"Is that what Hitler said (5.50 / 2)
as the shells fell around his bunker?" "Go sputter in your Nazi prison, scumbag." That's 2.  You've dehumanized me and referred to me as being like one of the most vile groups of human beings that has ever walked the earth.  Apparently you don't even know when your doing it. Sad.  Peace  

[ Parent ]
LOL (0.00 / 0)
What a joke.  If the shoe fits buddy, spin my metaphor to your absurd conclussion, you're still an Anti-Semite.

[ Parent ]
And your still, God forgive me (3.67 / 3)
, an uneducated asshole.  Peace

[ Parent ]
Which God? (0.00 / 0)
You take the name of a Egyptian Architect.  Ra? Allah?  Whom?  Which God is designed in your mind to offer up forgiveness for your belittling my 100K College experience in Boston?  Is my lack of education zeroed in on my inability to bend over for PLO talking points or revisionist history about P/I??  Am I not smart enough to decipher an Anti-Semitic screed on Christmas Eve?  I'm an asshole for sure.  You're a real wiz at being a sycophant for Jew hating fiends.

[ Parent ]
If Fox is (0.00 / 1)
pro-semite I must be anti-semite.  So be it. I'll figure out what that means.  You are more or less speaking for Fox, no?

Don't Panic.

[ Parent ]
Not at all speaking for Fox (0.00 / 0)
I don't hold anyones flag in my private affairs.

[ Parent ]
That statement makes you (0.00 / 1)
an uneducated lying asshole or if you actually believe it, a delusional wack-job.  PS, your "100k College experience" puts me in mind of Dylan, "You've been to all of the finest schools Miss Lonely, but you only used to get juiced in them."   Peace

[ Parent ]
So now we use the Bible? (0.00 / 0)
That nice reference that people used to defend slavery?

How Lutheran of you.

Are there a bunch of people on this site that act like English teachers that ignore the basic gist of an argument and attack every little error they see as some planned conspiracy? All the while demonizing anyone that thinks there is a conspiracy? Of course.

But there are others that wonder why someone would come to a site and daily write about a single subject. There a lot of things I don't like. Israeli politics is but small subset of the things that piss me off. I don't obsess with it. It has a lot of aspects most of which have nothing to do with 'Jews'.

The fact that we stick our nose in Haiti whenever it suits our needs, but the country is one of the biggest hell holes, is my biggest problem.

Why don't we help that country? It's near us.

Until we have a foreign policy that realizes this is problem, and we can easily resolve it, all the other problems we have end up like the stupid name-calling we get in an I/P debate.

Our 'problem/no problem' detector is skewed to who has the money to tell us there is a problem. (AEI/Lockheed Martin/Etc)

Seriously. Haiti is a small country that doesn't have near the baggage the Middle East does. We pick up their leaders and send them abroud when they displease us, but other than that, what have we done to bring 'Democracy' or 'Freedom' there? Nothing.

The United States of America has no way resolving economic crisis, political crisis, or social crisis. Wait, the American Enterprise Institute will! Yes, the millions they spend will save Haiti. Sorry. Acid trip.

We only know how to build up the name calling to such extremes that people want to buy our weapons to shoot the other...

And you are just as much as part of the system as everyone else.



[ Parent ]
That we give billions of dollars (5.00 / 4)
(borrowed on our once-good credit) a year to a country with a GDP per capita between France and Germany (according to the IMF) while billions of people survive on a dollar a day, including as you note many in our own back yard, should tell you what the problem really is.  Who the problem really is.

You're absolutely correct that "Our 'problem/no problem' detector is skewed to who has the money".  Just look where Hillary goes to get hers . . .
 

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
Say it. You know you want to. (8.50 / 2)
Just say it.  Where does Hillary go to get her money?  Tell us.


In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

[ Parent ]
Same place Guiliani gets his? (5.50 / 2)


They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
Hillary Went To Israel... (0.00 / 2)
.... to pledge her neverending loyalty. I'm sure AIPAC rewarded her. If ziozealot minions of the fat-cat ziozealot masters want to berate all us (unapologetic) ziophobes, and say we are simply anti-Jewish (which most of us, including myself, are not), they will fare much better with the guy who has banned more users than he has.

We know what's going on in Palestine. The rich are mugging and murdering the poor there. Sometimes the poor throw a rock or something back at the muggers. We ziophobes just happen to side with the ones getting mugged and murdered.

Megaphone that.


[ Parent ]
I bet you know . . . (0.00 / 1)

http://www.opensecrets.org/pre...

HILLARY CLINTON (D)
Top Contributors

DLA Piper  $356,100
Goldman Sachs  $350,050
Morgan Stanley  $323,550
Citigroup Inc  $307,350
EMILY's List  $211,642
National Amusements Inc  $193,850
JP Morgan Chase & Co  $173,350
Kirkland & Ellis  $172,000
Skadden, Arps et al  $151,460
Greenberg Traurig LLP  $150,900
Cablevision Systems  $135,113
Merrill Lynch  $125,550
Time Warner  $124,150
Lehman Brothers  $123,450
Bear Stearns  $120,580
Patton Boggs  $118,400
Ernst & Young  $110,650
Blank Rome LLP  $105,100
Latham & Watkins  $100,950
News Corp  $99,350

Or for individual donors:

http://www.newsmeat.com/campai...

Pick a letter . . . try "S" for example (it has the most entries).  Didn't find you there though . . .



"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
Just as I thought (3.50 / 2)
all talk, no balls.

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

[ Parent ]
a candidates donor list (9.00 / 4)
is "Worthless Troll Douchbaggery"?

Why is that, Paul ? ? ?

ROFLMAO


"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
Why do we give billions to a country where... (7.67 / 3)
98% of Americans would not be welcomed? 98% of us are barred from immigrating there.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
Sorry (5.00 / 6)
I can't quite buy into it.  I've been here from the beginning and I've never seen a plethora of essays (even when we called them diaries) protesting the actions of the Palestinians, or the Arab Countries.  I've never seen them (this of course doesn't mean it doesn't happen) write proactively and aggresively (which in many cases, as I noted in my essay, the anti-Israel "group" here have used terminology and concepts which the EU distinctly described as "anti-Semitic") in "original" essays to decry the activities of the pro-Palestinian Lobby.  Only in reaction to the hate already being posted.

I'm not a Jew (I am, however, circumcised...many of us white bread folks did that in the 50s...I just thought you'd like to know).  I have a number of friends of the Jewish persuasion, and I'm disappointed that my Jewish friends on this site can't disengage from the rhetoric calculated to create this reaction, but there it is.

Just as someone here (I believe on the Pro-Palestinian Side) identified one of their forensic opponents talking about "the company you keep" the same holds true for you.  It is the company you keep.  You may not be anti-Semitic, I don't know and don't care.  But by defending somebody like Proximity, who in my opinion (and again, that of the EUMC)is the very definition of an anti-Semite hiding behind inflammatory anti-Israel rhetoric, then you get tarred with the same brush.

Most of the anti-Israel lobby here know that the way the present their case is calculated to create the reaction that has been created.  They are aware of the history and pain this has specifically caused MSOC.  They are aware of the schism in this site which happened before with I/P.  Most have been banned from other sites, because of either their views or their style of rhetoric.  Most seem desparate for others to hear them (and unable to create a space like this with the panache, style or ability that MSOC did) so they continue to come here, post their "news" (which often is just the parroting of someone else's inspired writing) and watch the fur fly.  

You say it is the "Jews" who are destroying the site.  I say it is the pro-Palestinians, using rhetoric designed to inflame, intentionally creating the I/P wars that are destroying the site.  What is sad is that if the site closes because of all this, you won't have yet another place to spew your venom, or state your opinion as you put it.  Mission Accomplished.

Sorry, I just don't buy your version.
 

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


Don't you think that (3.00 / 1)
bush has done more then enough protesting in our names against the "evildoers" (read Arab's) by illegally invading  Iraq and Afghanistan?  It's time that we all be a bit more even-handed when it comes to the Israeli's and the Palestinian's, don't you think?   Peace

[ Parent ]
A million times thank you DA (5.80 / 5)
I've always liked you, now I think I love you, thank you more than you can know.


I will not die an unlived life. Fuck em, I will not live in fear, I will live out loud and on the record.  

Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) 1-800-787-3224 (TTY)  


[ Parent ]
C'mon Cali... (7.00 / 1)
it was whole circumcision thing, wasn't it.

I just can't be serious for an entire post, just most of it.

Thank You.

Love you too, even if I do steal your water.  

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
And just to make sure I checked, (0.50 / 2)
and the statement I attributed (about "the company you keep") to the pro-Palestinian side, was in fact stated from the other side of the debate.

Just to make sure that I got the facts right.

Also, oddly enough, it was addressed to you, Miss M.  

Kismet, huh?

My father used to repeat a doggerel about alcohol,

You can tell a man who boozes,
by the company he chooses.

And the pig got up and slowly walked away.

.

Wise old man, he was!


DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
?? Sorry you don't believe in Palestinian (10.00 / 2)
Human Rights. Some of us do and will continue to write about it, in spike of the people (that for whatever reason) want to continue hiding what is being done daily to Palestinians.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
Destroying This Site? (3.00 / 2)
The truth does hurt on occasion. It will not "destroy this site." Enough of this hyperbole.

[ Parent ]
I'm amazed that I am the first one to say this, but here goes (5.83 / 6)
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

Come see TV from the reality-based community at RealityBasedTV.com

Don't go there . . . (6.00 / 2)
It's understandable to come to hate the haters, but that leads to its own kind of darkness.  Don't go there.

It's understandable to hate the betrayers, the self identified "liberals" and "friends" who paint no more than a liberal veneer over their smug self righteous racist selves, and are "friends" only so long as you endorse their own "special entitlement".  But don't go there.

It's understandable to hate those who have so obviously delivered the ultimatum to MSOC . . . "silence the anti-Zionists, or we will destroy your site".  But don't go there.

It is understandable to hate:


I'm really glad that the readership of this website is declining. Eventually, it will be limited to just a handful of left-wing bigots and their deluded apologists.  I've been hanging around because there are a handful of people I like here, but the stench of the rest of the people here is becoming unendurable.  This website has becoming a steaming pile of pigshit, studded with a few diamonds.  And the diamonds are becoming fewer by the minute.

and the evil that he represents.  Him and his buddy:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

But please, don't let them cause you to hate my wife because she's Jewish . . . she's not like them.

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


"hate my wife because she's Jewish" (5.00 / 3)
I imagine that ship sailed quite a while ago.

Come see TV from the reality-based community at RealityBasedTV.com

[ Parent ]
I think that (5.67 / 3)
in this case at least, your imagination is wrong.  I don't believe that MM has ever hated Jews as a class, and the very fact that she recognizes the response within herself to the bad specimens here will, in the end, prevent her from making the erronious generalization.  My closing sentence was just a nudge to remind her . . .
 

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

[ Parent ]
Deward (10.00 / 1)
You are so wrong, in just so many ways.  MSOC has never banned someone for their I/P views.  She has never banned anyone for anti-Semitic rhetoric in my opinion.  She is sick to death of all the the continuing I/P crap on this site, and has said specifically so.  She consistently leans toward the side of free speech and refuses every ultimatum that has been given to her.  

If the site count goes down because the Jews leave the site, who will you drop Os on?  Who will listen if the "Jews" don't engage?  

If it is just MSOC, Diane, and me, and Cali, just who will read the continued retreaded stuff that someone else wrote?   Once the essays disappear without comments or reccomendations, will they continue to post?  Or is it just the angry child, crying for attention.

Mind you, I haven't seen the "Jews" posting anti-Arab or Anti-Palestinian diatribes.  That shouldn't matter.

You will be speaking to an empty room, hearing your own voices.

Definitely the way to get your message across.  

Bravo.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
Devil (5.00 / 3)
If you're not going to address anything that I wrote, why do you put my name in the subject line?

And . . . did it ever cross your mind that the other 98% of Americans have lives, and maybe even thoughts, that matter?  

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
I addressed your statement.... (9.50 / 2)
It's understandable to hate those who have so obviously delivered the ultimatum to MSOC . . . "silence the anti-Zionists, or we will destroy your site".  But don't go there.

by proving that the any ultimatum delivered to MSOC in the past has failed.  Thus your statement is merely empty rhetoric, delivered for the reason to hear yourself speak.

The larger question might be whether it is the demands of those wishing to suppress anti-Semitism (I have also defined the difference between that and anti-Zionism in my essay) that is they who are destroying the site or those who (IMNSHO) bait them.  If, as you say Maryscott has defended (which historically isn't true...the last group of "Jews" left), or will defend, the anti-anti-Zionists, then why do the anti-zionists continue to bother to post here, except to create this exact situation?  

Your other statement,


It's understandable to hate the betrayers, the self identified "liberals" and "friends" who paint no more than a liberal veneer over their smug self righteous racist selves, and are "friends" only so long as you endorse their own "special entitlement".  But don't go there.

I wrote an essay today where I identified every human as bigots, myself included.  The minute you start to group individuals with labels, to minimize people by placing them in that group, as you have done in the above statements, you have establish a bigoted stance against them.  It is again, empty rhetoric, and simply the easy way out.  It should be impossible to hate another person as an individual, but simple to do it when you lump them all together.  By stating it they way you do, you justify "hating the haters," regardless of your advice.

So, two out of the three original statements you made, I have addressed.  If you are depending on your first and last statement to be buttressed by the two I addressed, then forensically, I can't accept your premise as anything but empty rhetoric.

Another question might be, if the "Jews" carry out their threat and leave, like they did before and the site suffers (as most regulars here thought it did, and think it will) in quality and quanitity, maybe the majority here consider the "Jews" valued members of this community?  It doesn't appear you share that opinion.

Of course 98% of the world can have an opinion, and it is my right on this site to attempt to refute those opinions, or at least to state my own in defiance of theirs.  That is the way the game is played.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish


[ Parent ]
as usual you misrepresent, (7.67 / 3)
 and thus do not address what I said at all.

You are correct that MSOC has not yielded to the censorship demands of the Zionists.  You ignore what follows . . . that those same Zionists set out to destroy the site in retaliation.  

Regarding faux liberals . . . and particularly the supposed "friends" of MSOC, notice how quickly their "liberalism" and "friendship" disappear when one does not kow tow to their Zionist posturing.  Noticing that does not involve "lumping them all together" . . . one can observe it just as well, if not better, one at a time.  Only after observing the individual behavior does the common thread become clear.  And no, I'm quite serious about not lowering one's self to their level and "hating" them.  Contempt is the more appropriate response.

Odd also that you go on and on about "the Jews" . . . that's entirely your rhetoric, not mine.  What kind of racist claptrap are you about with your "if the "Jews" carry out their threat and leave"?  You seem to regard "the Jews" as a monolithic bunch of amoral bums (Zionists) all ready to pack up and leave MLW if they don't garner unwavering support for a racist state in Palestine.  I don't buy it.  I don't believe that every person of Jewish descent who participates at MLW demands as a price for that participation that everyone else sign on to ethnic cleansing and genocide.  Clearly some do . . . let it be their loss, not ours.  But unlike you, I do not have a racial test to determine anyone's "value to the community".

And you close with more of the same blind arrogance . . . it is your "right" to state your opinion, but it's not a right of those who disagree with you to state theirs.  

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
I know it will come as a surprise (0.00 / 0)
but I was keeping with the tone of the original essay, the one we're commenting on, which uses the word or a derivation of it 23 times, if I counted correctly.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

[ Parent ]
On target: (0.00 / 0)

Regarding faux liberals . . . and particularly the supposed "friends" of MSOC, notice how quickly their "liberalism" and "friendship" disappear when one does not kow tow to their Zionist posturing.


They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
and by the way (0.00 / 0)

I wrote an essay today where I identified every human as bigots, myself included.

You are, no doubt, correct about yourself.  Who, after all, better to know.  But you are not an authority on, nor do you speak for, everyone else.  Rather presumptuous, that . . . but then "devilisharrogance" is your name . . .  

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire


[ Parent ]
There are plenty of non-zionist Jews. (0.00 / 0)
Did you think ALL JEWS support Israel?

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
Israel is the one stealing the land and killing (0.00 / 0)
the innocents, and rejecting peace talks with Hamas.

The people you are protecting:


'Masked settlers beat Palestinian farmers'

Palestinian officials say farmers, youth assaulted by group of Israeli settlers wielding sticks, pepper gas in field near Nablus

A group of masked Israeli settlers beat and injured four Palestinian farmers tending to their field in the West Bank on Tuesday, Palestinian officials reported.

''They parked on the road and we thought they were just hiking but suddenly they put on masks and they sprayed me in my eyes and beat me and I couldn't see who it was,'' said farmer Hussein Asida, 46.

50-year-old Hashem Hamed, who was working alongside Asida in the field, was moderately injured and evacuated to the nearby hospital in Nablus with a broken arm and badly injured pelvis. Hospital officials told Ynet he also sustained a serious head injury and required eight stitches.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articl...


Israel unveils settlement plans on peace talks eve

By Adam Entous Sun Dec 23, 11:15 AM ET

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel unveiled plans on Sunday to build hundreds of new homes on occupied land near Jerusalem next year, drawing protests from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on the eve of renewed peace talks.

Israel also vowed no let up in its "real war" against Hamas Islamists who seized control of the Gaza Strip in June after routing Abbas's forces. Militants fire rockets from Gaza into southern Israel.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert rejected the idea of any talks with Hamas over a possible ceasefire and Vice Premier Haim Ramon said Israel's strategic goal was to topple the group's government in Gaza using military and economic pressure.

The issue of Israeli settlement building in the Jerusalem area has clouded negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians announced at a U.S.-sponsored peace conference last month in Annapolis in the United States.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...

Frankly I am tired of my country fighting Israel's proxy wars.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
Deward, I am not surprised to see that (3.00 / 3)
as the Hate Squad here is but a small offshoot of the mob that has taken over DKos and now sits there congratulating itself at having quashed all discussion of the Israeli occupation.

It is interesting to see how unanimously the posters there assume that, because someone has complained of abuse by Jews, the abused person must be at fault, the victim must be guilty.  Never the Jews of whom she complains - oh, no, if Jews are accused, it is always the accuser who must be condemned.

It is interesting to see how not a single person wondered:  what terrible abuse was done to this person there, that it could cause such appalling feelings?

If a gang of white people had attacked a black person, thrown her to the ground and rolled her in shit, called her filthy names, done this repeatedly as other white persons stood by and watched without intervening - if the victim had then said, "These incidents have unfortunately made me feel hate towards whites," everyone would say:  Yes, I understand how you could feel that way.

But the people who attack me are Jews, and thus I am now antisemitic.


[ Parent ]
The only thing I would condemn (6.75 / 4)
is people being abused because they are part of a particular group, rather than called on their individual behavior. I am horrified to see this from you; this repeated use of "the Jews." If this site is, indeed, pushing you over the edge into such an abyss, then by all means, you should depart and find your moral compass, again.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
that does sound (9.00 / 1)
distressingly like you condone abusing someone because they are not part of a particular group.

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

[ Parent ]
That looks distressingly like (8.50 / 2)
you have a reading comprehension problem.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
or perhaps (7.00 / 3)
you have a writing problem . . . (in that what you're really thinking shows through . . .)

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

[ Parent ]
Take a class or something. (9.00 / 1)
Go somewhere and learn the difference between the word "abused," and the phrase "called on." Then come back when you're capable of conversing with other grownups.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
I do fine (9.00 / 2)
with grownups.  Can't get over my disdain for camp followers, though . . .

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

[ Parent ]
Curmudgette, You Will Soon Find... (0.50 / 2)
.... that it is not just this site that is pushing us all closer to anti-Jewishness. It happens when Kos bans users. It happens when people lose their homes because of spending on wars promoted by Israel. It is happening all over the internet! The only thing that might stop it could be if Jewish people take to the streets to protest against zionism.

[ Parent ]
Yes. (8.00 / 2)
Just like all that inner city crime is causing racism against blacks. So unfortunate when some members of race or religion simply force everyone to think ill of their entire race or religion. Jews everywhere should just acknowledge and accept that people are, by and large, morons, and better represent Judaism. Maybe a good PR campaign would help, because nothing moves and directs those clueless sheep better than a well-timed press release.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
No. The ONLY one pushing you towards bigotry (6.67 / 3)
Is yourself. This comment, where you express blatant bigotry and anti-Semitism? You wrote that, no one else.

And who, by the way, is "all"? Why is it that racists and bigots always want to be part of a group, and want to induct others into it, whether they want to belong or not?

Take responsibility for your own words, your own actions, your own bigotry, your own anti-Semitism... and DO NOT hide it behind the Palestinians, who do not deserve to have the bigotry of comfortable, privileged Westerners hung around their necks in addition to all the rest of the injustices they endure.

Oh and hey, more collective punishment and collective responsibility, I see:

The only thing that might stop it could be if Jewish people take to the streets to protest against zionism.

Sounds just like the freaks who call for Muslims to march in the streets and denounce the actions of some guy they never met, who lives on the other side of the world.

Two halves of the same coin. Racist freaks, the lot of you.


[ Parent ]
I Have A perfect Right To Be Anti-Jewish (0.00 / 2)
But I am not. Semitism is a race, not a religion, and it has precious little to do with Jewish religion.

No "freaks" I know of are calling Muslims to march in the streets. The relationship between ziozealots and the Palestinians they are ethnic-cleansing in the "holy land" is harshly asymmetrical. If the Jews want to save themselves from the coming US holocaust, they would be well advised to start marching. On the other hand, I'd guess that would do little for the Muslims.

Your calling me "anti-semitic" is disingenuity in the extreme. You would call any decent ziophobe "anti-semitic," I am sure.


[ Parent ]
Oh, have a cow (6.00 / 1)
I call anti-semitics anti-semitic. And you are one.

The freaks who have been calling - demanding, even, for their own safety, and so that there is not a severe backlash against them - for Muslims to march in the streets have been doing so ever since 9/11. Palestinians are not the only Muslims (and even not all they are Muslims).

"ziozealots" and "ziophobes" are cute little handles, but mean little if the basis for them is a hatred of Jews. I am an anti-Zionist, anti-colonialist, completely against the policies of the Israeli government, the continuing occupation of Palestine, the theft of their lands, the persecution they undergo and the collective punishment of the Palestinians.

If the Jews want to save themselves from the coming US holocaust, they would be well advised to start marching.

If there is a coming holocaust of the Jews in the US, they would be better advised to start stockpiling arms. As should all those who would stand shoulder to shoulder with them - which would include me, and multitudes of others, including quite a few Muslims of various ethnicities, I have no doubt - against... who? You and what others will be perpetrating this US holocaust?

Take ownership of your bigotry.  


[ Parent ]
I Have Repeated 100 Times I Am Not Anti-Jewish (4.50 / 2)
But of course, the Israel firsters just ignore that. Jews are not semites. Semites are not Jews (in most cases). Most Arabs are semites. I am not anti-Jewish, and I am not anti-semite. I am merely anti-Israel. Because Israel has destroyed my country. I will try to refrain from calling you an Israel firster ziozealot. But this repeating "anti-semite, anti-semite, anti-semite, anti-semite, anti-semite. is becoming less effective every day.

The ziozealots will only get a lot of decent, innocent real Jews killed if this keeps up. I may be a cold blooded realist, but I am not ready to recklessly place put the Jewish in harm's way because of the insane aspirations of the vicious zionist cult centered around the corrupt theocratic regime in Israel.


[ Parent ]
Which is your country? (0.00 / 0)
And if you've had to deny something 100 times, it's probably about time to check yourself to see there is that need to repeat the denial in the first place.

Oh, and this RaH0wa - racial holy war stuff? Old hat. It must be the Jews turn on the merry go round again, of folks to hate. Black folks have a permanent place on the merry go round but others sometimes go in cycles as "the ones who'd better watch out" du jour.  


[ Parent ]
I Don't Hate The Jews (I Like Some More Than Others) (0.00 / 1)
I repeated it because I, and other ziophobes, are constantly berated as anti-black... er... anti-semite, which of course is ziozealot code for "anti-Jewish." You couldn't figure that out for yourself?

[ Parent ]
Which country is your country? n/t (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
You know what, Miss Mannered (11.00 / 3)
I have lived with the hatred of white people (some of them even JOOS!) my entire life. I've had dogs set on me - a geeky, glasses wearing, non threatening woman - just for being in the wrong neighborhood. I've had white people scream invective and racist epithets at me because I dared to cross, in the crosswalk, in front of their car, I've had white people attempt to run me over, I've heard white people I thought were friends laughing at racist jokes when they thought no people of color were around, I've had...

Well, you know - I could go on and on and on - and on. And still the next white person I meet (or Jewish person, Latin@, etc, etc) is a whole person unto themselves, and has a clean slate on which they, and only they, will paint their own portraits.

You don't get to justify your bigotry using the (real or imagined) lived experiences of marginalized and persecuted people of color, you don't get to compare someone being mean to you on a blog with someone who lives with this stuff from the time they are born til the time they die... whether they be Black, Palestinian or anything else.

Own your own words, own your own bigotry.

But the people who attack me are Jews, and thus I am now antisemitic.

Yes, indeed. You are.  


[ Parent ]
"The JEWS" are making you racist? (9.43 / 7)
Or anti-semitic, whichever you prefer. Is that - this being the cry of just about every racist or bigot out there ("THEY [Blacks, Asians, Mexicans, Jews, gays... whoever anyone's particular they is]... made me do it") - is that where you are going with this paragraph? -

I find myself thinking that Proximity perhaps has the right idea, that Jews regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews.  That Jews will always stand with other Jews no matter their guilt, and against non-Jews, no matter their innocence.  The face of Jews has become unspeakably ugly in my sight, because of the ugliness of the Jewish haters here.

Cuz, you know... if so, you (as well as those commending you or commiserating with you) really are full of it.

What you do, what you feel within yourself - not toward individuals who may or may not have offended you, but towards an entire group of people - is no one's fault or responsibility but your own.

Had this site been what it once was, or at least aspired to be, there would have been any number of people in the comments here calling you out for your blatant bigotry instead of this diary being on or near the top of the rec list. As it is now, well... not so much.

And this is not a place where I wish to be, a place that breeds such hate, where such thoughts come upon me.  The Jews who hate me may have surrendered their souls to the darkness, but I refuse to do the same, to surrender to hate.  They are only a few evil-minded, hateful people, and I am leaving this place to them, to conduct their pogroms, to drag it down into the moral cesspit of the Jew Wars.

I fully agree that you should avoid places where there are Jews - for their sake.  


Thank You Nanette (10.33 / 3)
Nanette speaks for me on this one.  Miss Mannered, I appreciate your frustrations for what they are, but this diary is IMO over the top.  No matter what you think certain people did wrong - and I'm not saying they didn't - it is not "the Jews".  Never has been.  Never will be.  And to read you say that you are beginning to "hate Jews" merely because of rhetoric on a blog made me shudder.

On Christmas morning, no less, it pained me deeply to read that.  I hope that you search your soul.  Because having read you previously (although not IP, since I don't do IP), I doubt that you meant that.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
And why don't you "do" I/P...rather not know (0.00 / 0)
what's going on in our name?

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
I Don't Do I/P *Discussions* on Blogs (0.00 / 0)
Because I respect the seriousness of the subject too much to engage in the mindless tripe that I have seen here, DailyKOS, and elsewhere.  Neither side has clean hands and neither debates with 100% honesty.

Therefore I have no time to waste on it.  

You may call that ignorance (not that, of course, you have any clue what I either know or think about the subject).  I call that recognizing dysfunctionality and avoiding it like the plague.

You can find my meanderings on all things Black and political at Maat's Feather


[ Parent ]
I pronounce this (6.00 / 2)
best of thread!

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.


[ Parent ]
You ARE consistent, Madscientist. Gotta give you that. (0.00 / 0)

Shanikka has every right to stay out of I/P discussions. It is a quite intelligent choice of options. I myself did the same for several years, just as I stayed out of ultra-feminist discussions and many minority-centric ones as well. I dipped my toe into those streams when I was at dKos, was wildly attacked for not being whoever/whatever the posters thought "I" should be in order to have a legitimate right to comment, saw that dysfunctional tendency at work of which shanikka speaks and decided not to waste my time on them. Some factions of certain groups of people are carrying so much pain that they cannot hear past their anger, and it is my opinion that the only thing that can be done by someone who does not share their pain on an immediate, basic level is to leave them alone to try to sort things out for themselves.

As long as that sorting out process does not threaten to bring down civilization as we know it.

Thus my ongoing involvement in I/P issues here and elsewhere.

Your above pronouncement is self-seeking.

Thiungs have turned aginst you and your allies on this blog. You ruled with a bully's hand for quite some time here, and now...just like that...you do not do so anymore. However, since you are quite obviously...on the evidence of your many posts in support of other individuals with similar aims...part of a group that has a pro-militaristic, pro-racist Israel agenda, you apparently will take whatever you can get.

Why is this new stance self-seeking?

Because now that you are no longer in the catbird seat here, the next best thing that you can get done is to encourage non-participation in these discussions.

Nice move.

I call you on it.

Next?

AG

_____________________________

A note here:

I do not like to use the word Zionist much...too loaded, too many definitions, too much range of interpretation. Too much complicated history. Too simplistic as well in some respects, because there are many people who "support" current day Israel for sheerly pro-security state reasons. You do not for a minute think that George Bush and Dick Cheney are not in their heartless heart of hearts anti-Semites, do you?

Please.

But then neither do I want to appear to favor the total destruction of Israel. I do not. So I am often forced to sub-define my terms. The militaristic, racist rulers of Israel and those people...Israelis, Jews, non-Jews, it makes no difference to me WHO they may be... who support them are my own target, just as are the militaristic, racist rulers of the United States and those who support them.)

End of note.
_____________________________



Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
What label (0.00 / 1)
do these "militaristic racist rulers of Israel" assign to themselves?  Zionists?  Let's call them what they tell us that they are.  It's long past time to call a spade a Zionist.  Peace  

[ Parent ]
"Zionism" was at one time a valid point of view. Kinda like "Democrat". (0.00 / 0)

And it may be once again.

Also kinda like Democrat.

Labels suck.

Why?

Because they can be slapped onto ANY old can.

I prefer to open the can and take a whiff.

If it's spoiled, I don't care what it's called.

What's in a name? A rotted rose by any other name would smell as sour.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Just when I think (0.00 / 0)
you couldn't be more of a jerk, you prove me wrong!

You aren't the victim, son, you are the bully.  You as much as said so.

And I have no allies.  What's my position?  No, not the one you made up, my real position.  I;ve stated it before, but you simply ignore it.

It is your utter disdain for the truth that i find so childlike, son.  that and your continual avoidance of any argument in favor of personal attacks.

Shanikka was right:  anyone with respect for the topic will not find much of value on I/P threads here.

Their main value seems to be for those interested in "sorting out."  The dividers.  The haters.  The creators of "us vs. them."  In other words, the fascists.

Eugene once saw a vision for us all, a vision of finding commonalities, not differences.  You are everything antithetical to that vision.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.


[ Parent ]
You write: (0.00 / 0)

Just when I think you couldn't be more of a jerk, you prove me wrong!

Flattery will get you nowhere with me, madscientist.

But I thank you for the compliment.

"Proving you wrong" has become something of a hobby with me.

And in this instance...you prove yourself wrong.

Conservation of energy and all that.

Nice.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Sorry, AG (0.00 / 0)
nice try, old trick.  Ever the sophist.

Actually proving things takes effort.  You know, like backing up what you say.  Respect for the facts, logical argument, all things that you seem too lazy to attempt.

Instead, you dismiss that sort of thing.  Like when you called a request for backup to one of your wild fantasies "circular."  

I must say, AG, that at that moment, i pitied you very much.  I wanted to reach out in human kindness to pat your little head, saying, "there, there, it will all be fine."  And I thought that some of the women here must have wanted to clasp your head to their bosom, rub your nape, and say, "Poor thing.  Poor, poor thing."  It was such a pitiable act of desperation, that was.  It just announced, "you are right, I just made it up.  But I'm not man enough to admit it.  In fact, I'm not woman enough to admit it."

And you next sophism/personal attack?

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.


[ Parent ]
Blogs write about what's going on in Palestine. (0.00 / 0)
I suppose you get your news from the MSM.

Like I said....ignorance is bliss.

Either you stay informed or you don't. You DON'T have to participate in threads to read the diaries.

Most diaries go like this:

A diarist writes a story from information from some human rights group, or Israeli newspapers....the Zionist attack dogs attack the diarist, a fight ensues trashing the threads....but of course you would not know, BECAUSE you don't read the diaries!

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
Sorry to say this, but this is a disgusting diary if I ever saw one. (6.33 / 3)
Quite frankly, on many, if not most other forums, this diary would've been deleted in a heartbeat.  I always knew you had some controversial opinions, Miss Mannered, but I never thought you'd write something like this.  

Seriously, I don't think that even the late Louise Day Hicks or the late Boston City Councilor James Kelly would've written something like this!!

Ahhhh....Life goes on.


MM, I'm sorry to have to say this (7.71 / 7)
but what were you thinking when you wrote this diary?

"I find myself thinking that Proximity perhaps has the right idea, that Jews regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews.  That Jews will always stand with other Jews no matter their guilt, and against non-Jews, no matter their innocence.  The face of Jews has become unspeakably ugly in my sight, because of the ugliness of the Jewish haters here."

This is just plain anti-Semitism, no doubt about it. It's a real disappointment to hear you talking like that, since in the past you've always stood stridently against racism. But apparently, a bit of online nastiness from a few posters living probably hundreds of miles away is enough to convince you that "Jews regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews."

To appreciate just how absurd this sounds, take the example of Islamophobia. I condemn people for Islamophobia, as I'm sure do you. In their "defense", the racists usually point to Muslim-perpetrated terrorist attacks, or what they see as 'backwards' 'Muslim' cultural practices, and things like that. All you can point to to "justify" your anti-Semitism here are a few mean words posted anonymously onto a public internet site by people who claim to be Jewish. By those standards, Islamophobia begins to look almost acceptable.

Really, MM. I hope you were very drunk or otherwise incapacitated when you wrote this, because it's a real shame.

The Heathlander


No, Heath, I was quite sober (4.50 / 2)
but in great distress and pain from discovering such feelings in myself.

When I have reached out in peace to others, not knowing or caring who is Jewish and who is not, only to be met with a slap of hate in my face and told that this is because the hater is a Jew, and as a Jew she has the right to hate me for no reason - then these feelings arise.

And I realize that as long as I remain here, no matter what I say or do, they will continue to hate me, and the more they continue to hate me, the more I will be unable to quell the feelings that impel me to hate them in return.

When you find hate within you, you must cut it out.  In this case, the thing to be cut out is the hateful place that MLW has become.



[ Parent ]
MM (8.00 / 5)
you are not suppose to allow anyone, especially people on a f'cking blog, to have such power over you that you lose yourself.

I replaced Jew with Black and am reminded of HarveyMilk's diary (and it's defenders), on DailyKos of all places, lashing out against Blacks with blackface images for the acts of two people. HM's diary was inexcusable and this one is as well.  

History is the devil's scripture.


[ Parent ]
Who's "they"? (11.00 / 3)
"no matter what I say or do, they will continue to hate me, and the more they continue to hate me, the more I will be unable to quell the feelings that impel me to hate them in return"

I know for a fact that you're more than intelligent enough to know how to discriminate. I'm sure a lot of the people who act like total dicks online at DKos are Christians, but that doesn't "impel me" to hate all Christians, and I wouldn't feel that way even if I was "told" that the reason they act like that is because they're Christians. This is just silly. No one has "impelled" you to hate Jews, and if that's really how you feel then that's your own doing, I'm afraid. It's particularly strange given that some of the people you've associated closely with online in the past have been Jewish ourselves. Do you really think that our "face" has "become unspeakably ugly"? Do you really think that we "regard other human beings as objects, to be sacrificed to the interests of Jews"? If so, then I guess there's not much more to be said.

The Heathlander


[ Parent ]
You must know that it doesn't, (0.00 / 0)
and when I am removed from the abuse here, I will no longer feel that way.

Which is why I will no longer remain.


[ Parent ]
Don't leave, you will be greatly missed. (11.00 / 1)
Though I do understand someone's obsession with your panties would creep me out, too. :0))...naming no names!

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
Miss Mannered is a Dirty Bigot but I admire Her (0.25 / 4)
I admire your honesty, the others skim the surface hiding their hatred for Jews.  You have the stones to come out and admit you're a bigot.  You should take some amount of pride in your fortitude and eschew the normal festive Christmas Music or Yule Log on TV and watch this little number... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...  

[ Parent ]
I think MM has (4.80 / 5)
been twisting the testicles of you and those of your ilk.  MM is certianly not a bigot or a racist or a phoney, but she sure is exposing lot's of them.  Mirror anyone?  Peace    

[ Parent ]
She Wrote (2.00 / 3)
a Diary about Hating Jews.  Are you a fucking moron?

[ Parent ]
No, it was about WHY (9.67 / 3)
she had begun to entertain the thoughts of "hating Jews" and what her remedy was to stop that march into madness.   If you persist in thinking in straight lines and continue to delude yourself into believing that everyone is out to get you RECFOX, then you will never be able to step up to the next level.  Peace

[ Parent ]
You're Projecting (0.00 / 2)
and spinning her Diary.  Do neither.  Makes you look like a fool.  Cat's out of the bag pal.

[ Parent ]
"There are two kinds of fools (0.00 / 0)
:those who suspect nothing  and those who suspect everything. "Le Prince de Ligne.  I suspect that you are the latter.  Isn't "projecting" sorta like saying "That's what I understood that to mean?"  Your read and understanding is no better then that of anyone eles.  MM is the only one who knows what she meant, maybe she'll tell us both.  Peace

[ Parent ]
To me you look like (0.00 / 0)
a Clean Bigot. I don't mind getting down in the Dirt to find out what's really going on with myself and fellow people.  Are you a holier than holy pro-lifer also?

Don't Panic.

[ Parent ]
I know what your are going through....as I have (9.00 / 1)
experienced a couple years of being attacked by ZIONIST Jews. I understand....and I also understand you wrote this as a reaction of hurt and frustration.

Don't leave...if you do they win AGAIN. I know you are not a racist at heart, but when you are repeatedly attaCKED FOR THE SAME reason....it does get old.

I care and respect you....and want to take this comment as an opportunity to defect some of the shit that will be thrown your way!

You are fighting pack mentality, nothing more, and it is the bane of mankind. No group of people is immune. The fight for Palestinian rights is the fight for the individual.

Don't give it up, else the real racists win.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
It Really Is Not The Jews (0.00 / 0)
It's the criminal ziozealots that are attacking you. They are not Jews. Just like Bush is no Cristian. Just like the Arab sheiks are not Muslims. It's a vast criminal conspiracy, like the mafia, but 10,000 times more power mad. They manipulate a large army of ziozealot minions, who are the direct cause of your discomfort here.

[ Parent ]
I do not know why you wrote this diary (0.00 / 0)
but I have seen its consequences both on this site and at Daily Kos.  No matter how some Jewish Defenders of Israel on this site have treated you, this diary is a slap in the face to every Jewish Critic of Israel who has ever considered themselves your ally.  As heathlander has said:

No one has "impelled" you to hate Jews, and if that's really how you feel then that's your own doing, I'm afraid. It's particularly strange given that some of the people you've associated closely with online in the past have been Jewish ourselves.

By writing this diary, you have severed your connection not only to MLW, but to the circle of Israel's Critics who remain at Daily Kos.  


[ Parent ]
The Great Zionist Christmas Ambush (10.67 / 3)
The ferocity of the diatribes over the past two days here is quite a thing to behold. Dare I say that it smacks of a coordinated sneak attack and some of the dastardly tactics used by by some is the exact same sort of thuggish intimidation practiced by the neocons and their ilk in brutally suppressing free speech, Nazifying the college campuses and prancing with glee as they wave the scalps of men like Norman Finklestein in the air like some sort of trophy.

You people - and you know who you are have no shame and you are braying your death knell as your corrupt and rotting system in which you have vested interests in preserving deteriorates by the minute. There is a great awakening now going on in America as more and more people become aware of the depth that our politicians have whored themselves out to foreign countries and rapacious corporations that both benefit from a state of perpetual warfare.

As for the threats against this site by some of you I would carefully consider the consequences if I were you for you will be pursued to the corners of cyberspace, mocked, marginalized and shamed as the fascist McCarthyite trolls that you truly are.

I would suggest that you take Christmas Day to reflect on the virtues of peace and renounce the rank cowardice of your recent actions.

Just my two cents

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken


Right (3.67 / 3)
the JEWS are out to get you!!! They control the media too remember!!

[ Parent ]
"Egotism is the anesthetic (7.00 / 1)
that dulls the pain of stupidity."  Frank Leahy.  That and your lack of a sense of humor.  Peace

[ Parent ]
Who cares what anyone (6.00 / 1)
thinks about anyone else, as long as nobody is physically injured?  This is about being non-violent, not about agreeing with everybody about everything all the time.  A situation like that would be booooring and non-progressive.  (The next line will fuck you up, so read with tongue in cheek.)  Why does it matter if somebody hates the Jews as long as they don't want to cook them and eat them for lunch?  (In the last line you may insert Irishman, Sweed, Mexican, Catholic, Arab, etc. for "Jew".)   My point is that I refuse to stand close to a person who has not bathed in a week and if that makes me a bigot, so be it.  It's better for your health to hate no one because  hating brings all sorts of negative shit down on you, inside and out.  But, the "haters" have the same right to life as the non-haters do.  It's the job of the non-haters to keep the faith and the Peace and show the "haters" the error of their ways.  It's the "haters" who refuse to listen and then demand that nobody should speak except those that agree with them.  Peace  

I disagree with you, imhotep. (0.00 / 0)
This is like the old "slip on a banana peel" routine.  It's fine as long as nobody gets hurt--people either go along or they crack up laughing hysterically and think it's OK.  However, when it is disruptive and distressing to other people, someone does get hurt by it.  

When some sort of an attack is going on, it just can't be ignored and allowed to slide.  sorry.


Ahhhh....Life goes on.


[ Parent ]
What attacks (0.00 / 0)
We are all responsible for what we believe as individuals.  Nobody can force you to believe  differently.  If you are hurt by what someone else say's, that's on you and not on them.  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I have probably been attacked more often and over a longer period of time then anyone else on this blog.  And you know what, it's made me stronger, not weaker.  Oddly enough, the people I disagree with the most are the people who teach me the most.  Do not ignore perceived attacks, but never allow those attackers to be silenced, because you'll be the next person to be taken off into the night never to be seen again.  Peace

[ Parent ]
dhonig wins. (3.67 / 3)

My Left Wing (of Stormfront)
by dhonig
Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 05:25:58 PM PST

I never thought it would come to this.  I was a fan, an admirer, I thought even a friend of Maryscott O'Connor.  I was also one of the original posters at My Left Wing.  No longer.  But it's worse.  If it were just a disagreement, I would go quietly.  But My Left Wing has embraced the very ugliest edges of the left wing, going so far it meets itself at the other end.  My Left Wing is an absolute hotbed of virulent anti-Semitism.  The most recent diary there is entitled "Goodbye, Cruel Jews," and concludes.....

http://www.dailykos.com/story/...

I advised some time ago that it was dhonig's intention from the beginning to damn MLW as a refuge for antiSemitism, and subsequently advised that if some action were not taken, MLW would become so known, and those actions included banning anyone who engaged in blatant antiSemitic talk, racism, or related stereotypes and I am not talking here about "official" notions of antiSemitism that bear on criticism of Israel.

Daily Kos purged human rights activism on behalf of the Palestinian people, because he feared loss of Congressional bloggers, who might take to heart false accusations that such activism was antiSemitic, the typical charge of the right wing Zionists, and the small army of proZionist GIYUS type interlopers who defended Israel's grand injustices, suffering, and death metted to the Palestinians on a daily basis.

If you can't take the heat of this battle, whose sole purpose it is to publicize the human rights injustices being perpetrated against the Palestinians, it is probably best not to engage it.

Congratulations dhonig.





Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


Not yet he doesn't. Not by a LONG shot. (9.00 / 1)
AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

[ Parent ]
My Take (2.00 / 3)
It's hard to put into words my reaction to reading how much the Diarist "hates Jews."  Could I take it as vindication of my words and my methods.....of course.  It is the ugliest, most vile, disgusting thing I've ever read on a blog.  I feel physically ill that the moderators have violated the intent of MSOC and ruined this board, culminating in this moment of shame.  For you dead enders who are trying to "understand" why the Diary was written...wake up.  For you Uncle Tom Jews who are trying to "understand" or agree with this vomit, shame on you.  I've been saying this for months.....They HATE JEWS!!!!  HELLLLLLOOOOOO!!!!!!!  

[ Parent ]
In the meantime, people who profess to be right wing Zionist Irish Catholics like yourself, ought to get a clue from the real Irish. (11.00 / 1)
The Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign

The IPSC was set up in late 2001 by a group of established Irish human rights and community activists, academics and journalists who were deeply concerned with the current situation in the Occupied Territories. In partnership with Palestinians now living in Ireland the IPSC was formed to provide a voice for Palestine in Ireland.

We are an independent, non-party political organisation, run by volunteers all committed to a just and sustainable peace in the Middle East.

We need your help. To join us, click on "Contact Details" in the banner above. We have branches in a growing number of cities and towns around the island of Ireland. Join the local branch in your area (see Contact Details for list of branches) or ask us to help you set up a new branch in your area.

The aims of IPSC:

To raise awareness in Ireland of the international plight of the Palestinian People.

To promote Irish government involvement in finding a just solution for the Palestinian people, based on the full and unequivocal implementation of the United Nations General Assembly and Security Council resolutions regarding the right to self determination and respect for the human rights of the Palestinians.

To develop and co-ordinate grassroots support for Palestinian rights among the media and concerned NGO's.

To foster links between Palestinian and Irish organisations in the area of health, education and the global economy.

To promote Palestinian culture: literature, music and other arts in Ireland, so Ireland and Palestine can share in each other's rich cultural history.

To bring real Palestinian voices to life in the media in order to contribute to informed reporting on aspects of the current Middle East conflict and the Israeli occupation.

Your own condonement of Zionist orchestrated suffering and death metted out to the militarily occupied Palestinians is also about as disgusting as anything I've seen from the other side. As I recommended before, get yourself back to Little Green Footballs and rejoin your Islamophobic, antiArab, and antiPalestinian friends. Bigotry is bigotry and you're the last right wing Zionist here who should be putting this site or anyone else down.



Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


[ Parent ]
Ship has Sailed (0.33 / 3)
I hear nothing Shergald.  The Genie is out of the Bottle...one of your fellow travellers let us peak behind the curtain, showed all of you for what you are.  There's no going back.  Your words are meaningless.  You put up that Jimmy Carter Book for cover, to legitimize your hatred.  Be a man, put up a fucking Swastika, because we all know FOR SURE now, that's what belongs there.

[ Parent ]
So dhonig, RECFOX (3.50 / 4)
and a few others turn out to be the paid assassins sent by the rat-bastard Milliotis to square an old score?  Now things are getting interesting.  "And the lord said: No more water, it's fire next time."  Peace  

[ Parent ]
Swastika....Star of David, it's all racist. (2.20 / 10)


They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
For the hit and run people: (0.00 / 0)
A new peace effort was begun these last few weeks. In order for it to succeed, there must be a firm willingness to make peace. Until now, there has been no peace, simply because there has been no willingness to make it: "Peace, peace! they say, though there is no peace" (Jer 6, 14).

The strong party, the one with everything in hand, the one who is imposing occupation on the other, has the obligation to see what is just for everyone and to carry it out courageously. "O God, with your judgment endow the king," with your justice endow our governments so that they can govern your people with justice (Ps 72).

In recent times, there has been some talk about creating "religious" states in this land. But in this land, which is holy for three religions and for two peoples, religious states cannot be established because they would exclude or place in an inferior position the believers of the other religions. A state that would exclude or discriminate against the other religions is not suitable for this land made holy by God for all of humanity.

Political and religious leaders must begin by understanding the universal vocation of this land in which God has brought us together throughout history. They must know that the holiness of this land does not consist in the exclusion of one or the other of the religions, but in the ability of each religion, with all of their differences, to welcome, respect, and love all who inhabit this land.

The holiness and the universal vocation of this land also includes the duty to welcome pilgrims from around the world, those who come for a short visit, and those who come to reside, to pray, to study, or to perform the religious ministry to which the faithful of all religions have a right. For many years, we have been suffering from a problem that has never been solved, that of entry visas into the country for priests and for religious men and women who, in this land, because of their faith, have duties to perform as well as rights.

Every state in this land is not a state like all others because it has special duties stemming from the holiness of the land and from its universal vocation. A state in this land must understand that it must respect and promote the universal vocation of the land with which it has been entrusted and, accordingly, must be open to welcoming all believers of other religions.

I pray to God that the grace of Christmas, the grace of the God who is present with us, will enlighten all the leaders of this land. For all our faithful, in all parts of our diocese, may the grace of Christmas renew their faith and help them to live it more fully and to better carry out all their duties in their respective societies.

May you all have a Joyful and Holy Christmas.

The writer is Jerusalem's Latin Patriarch.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s...



They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.

[ Parent ]
I'm a Jew. I'm on your side. (9.88 / 8)
There's an old joke about an observant Jewish GI who finds himself in Tokyo during the High Holy Days. Somehow he finds a congregation of Japanese Jews, who all look very Japanese despite their yarmulkes and tallithem. When he identifies himself as a fellow Jew, one of them says, "That's funny. You don't look Jewish," as the others nod in agreement.

There are all kinds of Jews, from black Ethiopians and Brown Yemenites to tawny Hungarians with green eyes and sandy hair, and blonde, blue-eyed Sabras with classic Aryan features. Chinese Jews -- and they do exist -- don't look Jewish. They look Chinese.

Scorched-earth Zionism is only one flavor of political Judaism, and even in Israel it faces strong dissent. You should read some of the Palestinian coverage of Ha'aretz, powerful stuff revealing the essential cruelty and hypocrisy of Israel's inhumanity toward the Palestinians.

Don't judge Jews by the uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom around here. I detest them just as much as you do, and maybe more, because at least you don't have to be identified with them against your own will.  

The People's Republic of Moronia--If it ain't fixed, don't broke it.


Thank you, Jules. (0.00 / 0)

I'm a Jew. I'm on your side.

And:

Don't judge Jews by the uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom around here. I detest them just as much as you do, and maybe more, because at least you don't have to be identified with them against your own will.

Yup.

Thank you.

You pinned it.

An "uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom."

Yup.

Please...could we hear the like from some OTHER Jews? I know...it's hard sometimes. My conversion from an innocent and media/church/school/family/culture-hypnotized child of the white '50s/'60s American suburbs to a man who truly understands racism from a worldwide point of view was pretty damned rocky, too. And it effectively alienated me from many in my family and almost all of the people with whom I grew up as well.

Almost all of my white peers, when you get right down to it. Of ANY religious, class or ethnic background,

So it goes, and right is right.

There are other families, other peer groups.

The Family of Man.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

And Woman, too.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Bet on it.

Edward Steichen knew.

How anyone can bear to kill or maim human beings that can produce such beauty, such tenderness and joy is utterly beyond me.

His book, The Family of Man, was part of a series of events that literally transformed my life when I was about 14 years of age. I bought it on a whim during a school tour of the UN because I had also bought a cheap set of Andean reed pipes and the woman on the cover looked like she might know what she was doing. Little did I know, living in my Irish/Italian/Jewish/Anglo suburban Long Island ghetto, that one day quite soon I would be a part of that extended family rather than just another white middle class kid stumbling through a white middle class life and unquestioningly swallowing the filth that has been shoved down all of our throats by the media and the so-called educational system of this country.

Just dumb lucky, I fell in love with a music that I did not even know at the time was a product of the black American experience, and less than 6 years later I was OUTTA THERE!!! Truly re-educated by the sort Cultural Revolution-style life experience that is not stumbled upon by many dumb white kids.

Like I said...dumb lucky.

Now it's ALL of our turns.

Jew, Gentile, Muslim, atheist, whatever...black brown or beige...time to stand up and be counted no matter WHO the murderers are.

And no matter who their front men may be as well.

It's time.

Stand the fuck up and be counted.

The (most likely dark-complected and kinky haired) Jew Jesus Christ commanded it over 2,000 years ago.

Talk about a re-education!!! From the son of a carpenter to the Son Of Man!!!

It's his birthday today, in case any of you have missed that fact in the shock-and-awe barrage of commercial bullshit that the temple merchants have laid down.

Honor him.

Man, God OR myth.

Honor him.

And stand the fuck up to these blogswarming hustlers.

This "uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom."

Jew, Gentile, Muslim, atheist, whatever...black, brown or beige,

Stand the fuck up.

It's getting a little late in the game.

Or hadn't you noticed in all of the Xmas rush?

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

Stand the fuck up.

Now.

VAYA!!!

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Why should even ONE Jew... (11.00 / 5)
   Don't judge Jews by the uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom around here. I detest them just as much as you do, and maybe more, because at least you don't have to be identified with them against your own will.

Yup.

Thank you.

You pinned it.

An "uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom."

Yup.

Please...could we hear the like from some OTHER Jews?

Why should even ONE Jew feel the need to stand up and say "Don't hate me because of what someone else did"?  

Why should even ONE be compelled to say "Don't hate my wife, don't hate my kids, because you hate someone who shares my/their religion/culture/color/etc"?

That some of Jewish ancestry/identity, or who have family members who are, have felt compelled to stand here and say that, in reaction to the bigotry spewed in this diary, should not be a source of pride and triumph for anyone - it should be a source of shame, that such a thing would need to be said, that people feel the need to differentiate themselves from others that they have nothing to do with, and say "Don't hate me and mine because of what they did".

If that there is any legitimacy to collective punishment and collective hate, regardless of who it is targeted against, is what you've learned from "[your] conversion from an innocent and media/church/school/family/culture-hypnotized child of the white '50s/'60s American suburbs to a man who truly understands racism from a worldwide point of view", then you have learned nothing at all.  


[ Parent ]
When so much collective hatred has been spouted by a few Jews on a given site, then Mr. Siegel's response is quite justified in my view. (3.00 / 2)

Were this sort of thing to be seen on MLW only with a few white people constantly supporting a racist regime or culture somewhere you can be damned sure that I would feel no compunctions whatsoever about laying down EXACTLY where I stand.

In fact, when Frasncis Holland was hounded off of this blog by many of the same people that I am opposing now, I did just that.

I see no harm in Mr. Siegel's statement of his position.

Especially in a comment about what appears to me to be a near-breakdown on the part of one basically heretofore neutral, non-racist poster who suddenly begins to feel that perhaps all (or even most) Jews ARE so pro-Semitic as to be effectively suffering from a form of proactive racism themselves.

Preemptive racism, brought about by the justifiable fear on the part of many Jews that the world is indeed out to get THEM.

Let's try to break this downward spiral every chance that we get, Nanette. From every side possible.

It leads stright to nuclear war, I fear.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
It is a shame... (10.00 / 5)
...but people are people, so I feel it's best to stand up and try to educate them a bit, as well as to offer some comfort to those who feel wronged and hurt, even -- especially -- when they are being unreasonable about it.

The People's Republic of Moronia--If it ain't fixed, don't broke it.

[ Parent ]
You sound like an extraodinary man, Jules. (6.67 / 3)

Good to meet you.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Understandable (0.00 / 0)
And commendable. But still a badge of total shame and dishonor to this site that you (and anyone else) should have felt compelled to do so.  

[ Parent ]
.... (0.00 / 0)

If that there is any legitimacy to collective punishment and collective hate,

NO....and that is why I am an anti-zionist and diary about what the Israeli Jews do the the Palestinians.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
Now a stand-alone post. (0.00 / 0)

An uncivilized claque spitting toxic venom? Or Peace on Earth and Good Will Towards ALL Life.

Sorry, whichever powers-that-bethat might be on duty today. I promised Maryscott that I would not re-post long comments as stand-alones, and I have been pretty consistent in not doing so.

But this one just wouldn't leave me alone until I reposted it.

Take the comment down if you so desire and just leave a marker to the post.

Thanks...

AG

P.S. Please post any comments you may have on this to the new location. Unless of course you are going to excoriate me for MAKING the new post.

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Squealing Orange Guttersnipes (4.00 / 5)
dhorn and the rest of the pissbabies who can't bludgeon free thinkers into submission with their typical goon squad tactics naturally have retreated behind the orange forcefield over at Cyber Stalin's online den if iniquity to launch their sleazy attacks on MLW.

They are truly in their environment there where their fellow lackeys can abuse their admin status to smack their thumbs down on their laptop delete keys as though they are swinging truncheons.

Cowards, utterly rank cowards, punks, losers and rats who unable to win a fight in an open forum slink back to the teeming snakepit of Zuniga, a weasel faced, conniving little charlatan with the morals of a Republican oppo slug and the integrity of a two dollar whore.

You people disgust and have become pathetic in your dishonorable conduct and slander - get over it, you assholes overreached in trying to take out Jimmy Carter last year and every day brings more mockery upon you.

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken


I just skimmed dhonig's dKos diary and the predictable responses. (7.00 / 3)

My Left Wing (of Stormfront)

Classic.

And gutless.

They have failed here.

Great.

Now can we go on about our business?

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
They Came, We Kicked Ass.. (3.00 / 4)
dhorn and the rest of his Israel Lobby Nazis are in good company over there at Stalin's place, the funny thing is that they have to put down independent bloggers in order to make good on Zuniga's dark deal with the devil and the establishment to deliver the 'left' vote for 2008.

They are no better at putting down insurgents than the IDF was when they got their asses kicked last summer.

They shoulda been Republicans...

The antiwar movement is slowly merging with the more libertarian elements of the right and is on the brink of becoming the worst nightmare of the oligarchs and it's toadies.

Like I said, they are pussies and punks and like a rigged game because they can't win in an open forum.

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken


[ Parent ]
YEP! (5.67 / 3)

Like I said, they are pussies and punks and like a rigged game because they can't win in an open forum.

The jig is up. Long live the internet.

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
Christmas With The KOS Kranks (3.67 / 3)
And quite frankly it was in really poor taste for the whack jobs from Orange to stir up all of this bullshit on Christmas.

Talk about dirty rotten beyond the pale lowball tactics - to attempt to ruin the holiday of MSOC and the others who post here this is right up there with hard core Republican douchbaggery and is nothing less than a stockingful of the same sort of desperate and petulant behavior that you would expect from a spoiled child who didn't get his Playstation 3 under the tree.

Why don't you just hold your breath until you all turn blue you rotten motherfuckers.

EE

"Every Decent Man Is Ashamed Of The Government He Lives Under"-H.L. Mencken


"dirty rotten beyond the pale lowball tactics" (5.67 / 3)
You have to ask why are such tactics are employed, all intended to defame diarists, messengers informing about a human right catastophe, defame commenters, defame particular blogs, and defame even the left wing of the Democratic party?

What else can they do? On Little Green Footballs, it is possible to praise the suffering and death caused to the Palestinian people by the Israeli government, military, and settlers, while casting those people, its victims, through falsehoods and propaganda as the aggressor, implying along the way that its source is Islamic extremism and corrupt leaders like the late Arafish, as Arafat was known on LGF? How does a liberal Democrat defend ethnic cleansing, confiscation of a peoples' lands, destruction of orchards and farmlands, and a way of life, a 40 year military occupation, colonialism, and so on and so on for the past 60 years? Who is to answer for the 457 Palestinian lives taken last year in this quest to obliterate Palestinian rights to their own lands for the sake of Zionist nationalism.

No liberal, let alone few human beings with ethical standing could do so. There is nothing left except to slay messengers and sites and the Democratic party. So who are these people, who come here portraying themselves as left wing liberals and progressives? Not left wing liberals and progressives. These are the same kinds of people we fought during the civil rights movement. They are for white racial supremacy, for separation from Blacks, for killing (lynching) Blacks who fail to tow the line. The parallels are direct. And in those days, they were Democrats as well.

The liberal and left wing of the Democratic party just does not support the human rights injustice Israel is perpetrating against the defenseless civilian population of Palestinians.



Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


[ Parent ]
PS: (8.50 / 2)
As liberals and progressive Democrats, this is what we should be fighting:

Photobucket

Photobucket

And these are some of the people we should be supporting in this fight.

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Photobucket

Engaging right wing Zionists is futile and wasteful of time; correcting lies and propaganda is acceptable. Why bother otherwise.  



Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


[ Parent ]
Shorter MLW (7.75 / 4)
The end is near and it is all the jews' fault!

Fight the evil semites, they've convinced me to be anti them!

AG for admin!

I am definitely going back to drinking because blogging is for idiots.

(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


All of this hair tearing and foot stomping from the anti-Andrew Meyer/pro-Israel folks reminds me of the conclusion to the Grimm Brothers' Rumpelstiltskin story. (5.67 / 3)
 
Soon afterward the little man came in and asked, "Now, Madame Queen, what is my name?"

She first asked, "Is your name Kunz?"

"No."

"Is your name Heinz?"

"No."

"Is your name perhaps Rumpelstiltskin?"

"The devil told you that! The devil told you that!" shouted the little man, and with anger he stomped his right foot so hard into the ground that he fell in up to his waist. Then with both hands he took hold of his left foot and ripped himself up the middle in two.

You pushed and you pushed, Jake.

Eventually, people pushed back.

That's all that is happening here.

Ain't about "Jews".

It's just about youse.

Any Jew who wants to make some sense here is as welcome as anyone else.

But...not MORE welcome.

Y'all can moan and groan all you want.

You fucked up.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
It's Not The Jew's Fault (9.50 / 2)
It's not the semite's fault.

It's all due to the fanatical, Satanic ziocon cult that runs Israel and the USA. It really is. But I fear it will be people like the Jews who will get stuck with the tab.


[ Parent ]
You win Arthur (7.00 / 2)
Yup, you have conquered and vanquished the likes of me.

Yesirree, the great Arthur Gilroy is the big winner, and what a prize you have earned!

You've won the hearts and minds of the 10 people who still read this blog!

It's a good thing you have loads of experience playing to small houses, right?

Blogging is for shut-ins, the unemployed, students, retirees, the socially inept and people with way too much time on their hands.

Good luck Blowhard, you're really changing the world!


(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!


I see that you have been reading Aesop's Fables too, eh Jake? (3.00 / 2)

Classic.

ONE hot summer's day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. "Just the things to quench my thirst," quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: "I am sure they are sour."

"IT IS EASY TO DESPISE WHAT YOU CANNOT GET."

You and your allies made a concerted effort to take over this blog. You spat bile on sincere blggers over and over again. Ad hominems, circular reasoning, blogswarming...the works. Was it organized? I don't know. I'd LOVE to see your emails. But organized or not, it was consistent. It became too insistent eventually; you made too many intelligent people angry, and you got your asses kicked.

So it goes.

You want to blame me?

Feel free.

I am honored. But I did not do this alone. Neither did the other people here who resisted your game.

YOU did it.

Your negative energies eventually defeated you.

Have fun wherever you go.

I am sure that you will find someplace that will welcome your act.

I usually sign off with the word "Later", but just for you? In your honor? I'll change it up.

Never again, Jake.

Never again.

It's a sword that cuts two ways.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
Whatever makes you feel better Arthur (0.00 / 0)


(Insert name here) is a right-wing fascist warmonger!

[ Parent ]
Why would I need to feel better, Jake? (11.00 / 1)
AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

[ Parent ]
Jesus fucking christ (4.00 / 7)
I can't believe I ever defended you at DKos, curmudgiana, or asked admins that you be reinstated.

What a vile piece of trash this diary is.

You are a fucking bigot. Period.


Just how many times do people have to be (11.00 / 1)
kicked before they fight back?

...or shot with rubber bullets and cluster bombs?

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
fuck off mattes (2.25 / 4)
perhaps you could actually take a clue from heathlander and callmecassandra who recognized this diary for what it is.

curmudgiana is blaming all Jews for some stupid fucking pissing match at a blog.

Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
No she is not. Just the HATEFUL ones. (11.00 / 1)
MissM is not a racist, not that it's important to you, since you seem to like to jump in on gang activities. Holy Warrior.

Wonder if you are going to talk to me like that next time we meet in Seattle.  

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
you're delusional (3.67 / 3)
if you can't see how this diary is anti-semitic. You are applauding the collective punishment you would otherwise (very justifiably) decry. It's disgusting and says much about your character.

As for seeing you in Seattle, I'd be glad to meet in person and tell you I think you are an anti-semite. The Drinking Liberally meetups are at the Montlake Alehouse every Tuesday night from 7pm to whenever (although not tonight or next Tuesday). See you there. And please, since you're feeling so bold, bring a copy of this diary and pass it out to the participants. See how well it goes over.


[ Parent ]
To explain this diary, you would have to have read... (8.50 / 2)
the hundreds of attacks MissM has had to endure over the last few years.

....but then I think I'm empathetic.

Just like I might say...."I can't stand republicans...they're all the same. I hate dog catchers....or evil step-grandmothers, or whatever."

I'm even sure I might have called christians, hypocrites at one time or another. People say things they don't mean in anger, period.

Rhetoric. Frustration.

Try the shoe on the other foot for a change.  

They can't attack the message so they attack the person. Pathetic.


[ Parent ]
also (2.75 / 4)
why don't you fucking get over yourself.

"rubber bullets and cluster bombs"? What the fuck? Have you been hanging out with Jonah Goldberg or something? It's the left wing version of the 101st Fighting Keyboard Division.


[ Parent ]
to remain or to leave, of course, is your call, MM... (9.00 / 1)

But I, too, think you ought to continue here even if you drop all commentary relating to I/P issues and ignore those that comment on it.

 In addition, I agree entirely with others here, notably Deward, who've pointed out quite rightly that there is simply no reason to come to the conclusion that a person's "being Jewish" and nothing other than that is grounds to feel either one way or another.

   You'll have noticed that "being Jewish" does not tell us anything useful or predictive about another's character or morals or sense of fairness or, really, anything at all.  

 And you know as well as I do why that is:

  "Jews" are fundamentally no different from ANY OTHER GROUP OF PEOPLE .  Within their numbers there are just as many people you'd regard positively or negatively as in any other group all other things being equal.

 By that, I mean that an individual's admirable qualities are to be credited strictly to his own personality and individual proclivities; "being Jewish" will not in and of itself make someone "a good person".  And, unfortunately, subscribing to any set of superstitious nonsense--religious or otherwise, but particularly religious superstitions does tend to encourage in the dull-witted all sorts of idiotic and needless mischief in thoughts and deeds.

 But that isn't peculiar to Judaism.  There are other reasons why, socially and politically, Jews and their religious behaviors and beliefs present us all with an especially destructive and damaging set of circumstances.  Those reasons are circumstantial but no less urgent or important for that fact.

  You can choose to take no further part in the discussions here, or, again, even leave participation altogether.  But I don't see how you're going to excape these issues and the realm of urgent problems that surround them---no matter what you do and no matter where you go.

   You departure would be a loss to this site.

 P.

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


This HAS TO STOP. (10.75 / 4)
It is one thing for a woman in pain to lash out against 3 or 4 people that she feels hurt her, but while I have not read this entire thread, honest to god, this is NOT A GODDAMN SITE FOR BIGOTRY.

So, if I go through, and find that people are being openly bigotted and spewing hate speech I will goddamned call Maryscott, get her out of bed, and ask to ban your asses.

Yeah, you hurt, MM; and so does Kane.  How would you take it if they diaried "I hate all Palestinians."???

I don't want any of you gone, I just asked for a turn down on rhetoric, a DISARMAMENT.

This is unacceptable.

There are people, real people behind these keyboards who have lost people on both sides.

Yeah, she wanted free speech,but not bloody hell.

STOP THIS NOW.


please explain yourself better ... (0.00 / 0)

 I suggest that.  The reason is, I know you from long experience in this blog and here, once more, you are right on the verge of doing something familiar again: react out of an over-emotional repsonse, declare things that are, at best, the province of Maryscott to determine, and, more generally, put your foot into another mess when you really don'thave to.

  In particular, all of that comes through in your use of these VERY GREAT generalities:

  "This"

   "HAS TO STOP"

 "this is NOT A GODDAMN SITE FOR BIGOTRY."

 "if I go through, and find that people are being openly bigotted and spewing hate speech I will goddamned call Maryscott, get her out of bed, and ask to ban your asses"

 "This is unacceptable."

 "Yeah, she wanted free speech,but not bloody hell."

   And you're here to define "bloody hell" for us?  That's what Maryscott wants you to do?  Does she also want you to define "open bigotry" (as opposed to some other kind of bigotry?) ?

 Something here is "unacceptable" to you.  But you haven't said exactly what, so are we supposed to just all shut up until we can figure it out?

  "How would you take it if they diaried "I hate all Palestinians."???

  I'd regard it as "their" right to diary such a thing---and haven't we seen things which are just about that or the next closest thing to it?

  I suppose you know what you're talking about when you assert that "There are people, real people behind these keyboards who have lost people on both sides".  Maybe they have.

  But according to statistics I've heard reported in the reputable press, there are three times as many people killed or wounded by Israeli violence as there are by violence from the motley assortment of those who are reacting violently to that Israeli violence.

   You're doing it again, Diane.  Or you're right on the verge of it.  

  Why not:

   wait and minute ---or some hours or days if you need to

   calm down

   and think over the vague generalities you've tossed out here as though it's all as clear to everyone else as it seems to be to you?

  I'm telling ya, ma dear---I'm speaking from experience when I say that you're tempting fate posting like you have there and you are probably later going to regret some or many of those words.

  Why not calm down and reflect awhile longer?

 

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


[ Parent ]
No Prox (10.00 / 1)
Emotional?  Perhaps.  Over the top. not.

Again... your reading comprehension suffers.

I said I would contact msoc, and am repeating her words about not a bigotry site. I will alert her if I read it, and let her decide.

I regret not a word.

Telling people hate sucks is well within my realm, just as you consider it within your realm to tell me what to think, say or how to act.

Suck it up.

I still have not read the whole thread, I am loathe to.

But IF I see objectionable contact I damn well will call her, well within my realm of good friend, dig.



[ Parent ]
"I still have not read the whole thread, I am loathe to." (11.00 / 1)

"I still have not read the whole thread, I am loath to."

 Well, I read it.  All of it.  At least twice now.  It wouldn't even occur to me to write what you've written if I hadn't read the whole thread.  

Telling people hate sucks is well within my realm, just as you consider it within your realm to tell me what to think, say or how to act.

Suck it up.

 You're doing more than simply "telling people hate sucks", since you're also--at the same time--defining for us just what constitutes **hate**.

 Nor am I **telling [you] what to think**.  It's called offering an opinion.  Which part of "This MUST STOP!" is an **opinion**?  You're angry, it seems and you're trying to lay down the law.  However, nobody here has broken the law--unless the law says we have to divine in advance what your idea of **bloody hell** is and carefully avoid it.

  You wrote previously that you could grow weary since, after all, you aren't Atlas.  Are you, then, Hercules?  Because defining for us here what constitutes hate is a Herculean task that I wouldn't touch with Neptune's trident.

 Why do you let yourself take on such tasks?

 Some people here who'd been used to bullying others just got a bit of their own back and they've now gone off wailing and gnashing their teeth like heaven itself fell down upon them.  They'll be **all right** since the only things that have suffered are their incredibly fragile and inflated egos---again, so typical of bullies when they get knocked on their fucking can.

 

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


[ Parent ]
I read enough (0.00 / 0)
excerpts to know the line is being crossed.

Don't you get if you thought dhonig was bullying & wrong, all these rare posters piling on is equally bad?

Why am I explaining myself to you?

This constant hate fest does have to STOP.


[ Parent ]
Call her. (6.00 / 1)
This thread is disgusting and it's not only this thread. It was my recall that she said, no hate speech, but if she said no bigotry, that ship sailed long ago. I'm still knee deep in family obligations, right now, but I've been popping in periodically to watch this catastrophe unfold. Some truly disgusting things have been said here, and a number of people have quit because of it. Maryscott should, at the very least, be made aware that her site now looks like the cyber equivalent of body parts hanging in trees after an explosion.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
its too early there (0.00 / 0)
and I didn't want to call her xmas day with this; but yes, I will call her when she wakes up. We talk nearly every Monday anyway.

I cut a little slack for people in pain, as I have for things people have said in the past weeks on both sides, but it is totally out of hand now.


[ Parent ]
A troll rating. (0.00 / 0)
How very mature of you, blue. Do we need to go over the rating system for you blue? I don't have time right now, so, briefly, I will just ask that you act like a grown-up.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
c... (0.00 / 0)
can you link me to the dele comment where recfox outted the private info?

[ Parent ]
How can I link (0.00 / 0)
to a deleted post? It's deleted. It's gone. It's gone to the great comment graveyard in the sky. If it exists anywhere, it will have to be retrieved by someone with far greater computer expertise than myself. Quite simply, RECFOX posted shergald's first name and his state of residence, so I deleted it.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
It didn't (0.00 / 0)
go to deleted and hidden comment land, so you must have clicked the database forever part. Wasn't sure if you kept a copy.

Just state & name, ok I didn't want to misspeak if he included street address or phone.

That is bannable anyway.

Thanks.


[ Parent ]
The option of whether (0.00 / 0)
or not to delete from the database only exists for diary deletions. Delete comment is just delete comment. The only time it's retrievable is if it's a comment in the subthread of a deleted comment; then it can be viewed by hitting the rating link in the user's comment page. But deleted is deleted. For the record, I don't think RECFOX knew there was a rule against posting that data. We exchanged a few emails on the subject, and I think we're clear now.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
RECFOX (9.00 / 1)
knew better, he has been blogging forever, and just thought he could get away with trollishness. Don't let him snow you.

He is a flaming troll.


[ Parent ]
Has that actually been posted somewhere? (0.00 / 0)
The no outing rule? I remember the last dust-up and so, I'm sure, do you. And I know we had a lot of admin discussion, but you'd have to show me where it's explicitly stated. Personally, I think he deserved one warning. He got that warning and a complete explanation when he emailed me to complain. But, again, take it to Maryscott. It's not a decision for either of us to make.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

[ Parent ]
exactly why I (0.00 / 0)
will present it to her.  If I thought otherwise, I would have already done so.

[ Parent ]
I Removed The "Troll Rating" For you and Diane W (5.00 / 1)
I just needed to get your attention. I intended to remove them all along. This is a serious situation, and I don't think people are thinking things through. An emergency, if you will. Sorry for any annoyance.

[ Parent ]
you have no idea ... (0.00 / 0)

" Some truly disgusting things have been said here, and a number of people have quit because of it. "

 Really?

  Who has left--for good?  You claim to know this?  I'll bet you real cold cash you're wrong, that each and every one of these you claim have left ---'a number of people have quit because of it'---haven't not posted their last words here.

 I've heard that all before:  Well! I never!  I'm leaving!  I can't be a party to this!  You people are disgusting! etc, etc.

  This is how babies pout when they grow into adult vocabularies.  These babies have already solemnly told us before they were all through associating with the likes of "us".  And, you know what?  They weren't through at all.  After a while, back they came and back they will come again.

  All of that is apparently beyond your ken because it doesn't fit into your Karma---Ouija-board--Tarot-card and mystical set of "standardized thinking about stuff".  When it comes to your having to deal with something off-script, outside the handbook's contents, you're hard-pressed to improvise thoughtfully.

  If you'd traipse over to their commiseration session at BHD, you'll find that they're there doing what they can't get away with here: congratulating themselves on their poor victim status and trading petty slights at this site because people here refused to toe their line.

 Tell me, if you can and dare: who's left never to return again here?  Hmmm?  And how confident are you of that?

 You make absurd assertions and then go skipping off as though you can't be bothered to consider what you claim.  Reminds me of the people you claim have left here all hurt and upset.

 Let me remind you that behind these arguments and discussions, people lives are being destroyed as they have been for the past forty years! in the occupied territories.  Against that fact, excuse me if the fragile egos of Israel-apôlogists are of less account.

  If you ever grow up into a real thinking, feeling, emotionally responsible adult---which in U.S. society is a hell of a tall order---you may come to understand that.

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


[ Parent ]
poor victims (0.00 / 0)
congratulating themselves on their poor victim status and trading petty slights at this site because people here refused to toe their line.

Sounds a bit like AG complaining about the "bullies" who have been "running" this site.

(I guess he means that they did not all adopt Gilroynism completely.)

Now, proxy, point me to an essay on this board that "apologized" for israel.  You know, one that says that the Iraelis are in the right, that they have done nothing wrong, and so on.  You keep referring to these people, but they don't show up on my screen.

Remember, an actual Israel apologizer, NOT merely someone that doesn't tow the anti-Israel line exact5ly as you would have them do.  An actual Israeli apologist.  

Thank you in advance.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.


[ Parent ]
did I say "essay(s)" ? ... (0.00 / 0)

 In fact, as amazing at it may seem, there is at least one---though it is somewhat attenuated now, what with NP's wider reading having affected his earlier opinions; but, once of a time he wrote in an actual diary that Israel's part as the homeland of historically persecuted Jews cannot, must not, should not, be criticised because, after all, think of all that the Jews have suffered and most notably relatively recently in the Holocaust of World War II.

  You could look that one up.

 However, my view of it is that someone whose participation is almost entirely limited to criticizing those who criticize Israel and its policies domestic and foreign as they relate to non-Jews, is being in effect an apologist for Israel.

  You don't agree with that?  Doesn't fit with your dictionary's definition of 'apologist'?

   So?

 In my view, such practice qualifies one as being an apologist.

   

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


[ Parent ]
OK, prox (0.00 / 0)
thanks.  That's one.  And I only said "essays" because they are easier to track down than comments, which, let's face it, are more prone to spur of the moment errors.

However, my view of it is that someone whose participation is almost entirely limited to criticizing those who criticize Israel and its policies domestic and foreign as they relate to non-Jews, is being in effect an apologist for Israel.

 You don't agree with that?

No.  I think this line of thought leads to real errors.  First, it presume that anyone who criticizes Israel is perfect and above criticism, and that everything they say must be accepted in its entirety without question, because to question is to "apologize for Israel."

To me, better evidence is apologizing for Israel.  for the people you mention, you might say that they are "often critical of those who criticize Israel."  Why wouldn't that be both accurate and enough?

Let's take an example.  Say I wrote that Israel had rounded up all of its Muslim citizens and forced them all to eat pork.  If you corrected me, saying that that never happened, would you be an apologist for Israel?

And what is the poor contrarian to do in your system?

I find it sad that anyone could be so cold and uncaring about the tragedy of the situation in Palestine that they want to see it as black and white, without nuance, without human stories.  As if the situation existed just to allow us typists to assign blame and write hatred.

"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire
Ah, my dear Voltaire, doubt is an acquired and cultivated taste, like Laphroaig Whisky or fine truffles, and quite as exquisite.


[ Parent ]
correction for "haven't not posted their last words here." (0.00 / 0)
 
that ought to have read,

"haven't not posted their last words here."  

Read - think - speak - doubt; create - explore - give - love.


[ Parent ]
Diane... (0.00 / 0)
Prox writes:

Some people here who'd been used to bullying others just got a bit of their own back and they've now gone off wailing and gnashing their teeth like heaven itself fell down upon them.  They'll be **all right** since the only things that have suffered are their incredibly fragile and inflated egos---again, so typical of bullies when they get knocked on their fucking can.

He's right.

And you should be glad that this has happened.

Yes...it's gotten rough up in here.

Who started it?

No matter how peacefully you might wish to live, it seems that there always comes a time when you must set your feet and resist.

It's as good as over, now. The blog verdict is in. Let the losers stay or go as they choose, and then...let's fuggedaboudit and go on about our business.

AG

P.S. I looked into that BHD thread.

SO nasty!!!

I would be quite happpy if I never heard from ANY of them ever again.

Ever.

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa


[ Parent ]
but AG (0.00 / 0)
"who started it" doesn't speak to the vile shit said after they left.

You yourself have spoken to the over the top shit, you know the difference of which I speak.

Is that whats next?


[ Parent ]
This Is Not About "Hate" At All (1.00 / 1)
It is about the subversion of a great progressive blog by a military disinformation system. If you don't think that's possible, read below.

[ Parent ]
I Removed All The troll Rating For Diane And Curmudgette (0.00 / 0)
I just needed to get your attention. I intended to remove them all along. This is a serious situation, and I don't think people are thinking things through. An emergency, if you will. People are overreacting, and that could be big trouble! Sorry for any annoyance.

There is no need to change anything. The sky will not fall if you just relax and do nothing. This was a conversation that needed to happen. Give yourself time to think things through. Do more research (I read three hours for every hour I write). Let the dust settle. Don't wreck the blog!

And instead of just giving me the "1", why not explain why I am wrong? I am quite sure we could argue that without generating any anger. Think of the great forces at work in this world. Why would they just allow free speech? We have a lot to discuss; and it deserves a new thread, even.


[ Parent ]
Dear Diane W : (0.00 / 0)
I respect you enormously. But at the moment, you truly must GET A GRIP!!!

You really want to know the cause of all this, or do you want to just keep you head in the sand. Here is the REALITY:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t...

http://politics.propeller.com/...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

You don't need to ban people who are under ceaseless coordinated attack by the Megaphone system. If you do, you will lose ALL the readers.


[ Parent ]
Blues (0.00 / 0)
These people on both sides have been long members here, and have nothing to do with that.

I strongly have and always will support the genocide in Israel against the Palestinians.

But some of the parties on both sides have been wrongly maligned, and the call to american holocausts and jesus-killer rhetoric is fucking off the graph.


[ Parent ]
typed too fast (0.00 / 0)
I have always been against AGAINST the genocide of Palestinians in Israel.

That said, so are many people who live there and here, of all ethnic and religious decent who like wise do not approve of that governments actions.

Just like I despise what Bushco is doing.



[ Parent ]
Diane : (1.00 / 1)
I have not called for an American holocaust. It's horrifying, but I have found that I have had to predict one. I have good friends, some of whom have great blogs, who are now preparing for that very thing. They are Jewish, or have Jewish children, and they are now taking measures for survival.

I have marched in the streets along side Muslims and Jews against the vast Palestinian holocaust. Either we discuss and neocon's plans for what may be coming, or we pretend these things do not exist.

There are many Jews who have been duped into supporting, to one degree or another, the Palestine holocaust. There are also very resourceful Mossad MI6, and CIA operations that will not allow open discussion on large sites on the internet. They can be very resourceful.

It would be nice if My Left Wing could remain open despite their manipulations.

(The "Jesus killers" "Issue" is such a joke. Everybody knows that Jesus was killed by climate change. I should worry about that bullshit? What an insult.)


[ Parent ]
Diane, as you will learn, and Maryscott will learn (maybe) (11.00 / 1)
There is no such thing as just a little bit of bigotry, or a "this far and no further" acceptable level of bigotry. It builds on itself, with the next person pushing things just a little more than the person that came before them, and then the next one after that doing so as well.

It doesn't end or abate when one is "understanding" of bigots and their motivations, nor does it mitigate the bigotry when it's hidden behind the facade of being champions for an oppressed people, nor is it, or should it be, more acceptable when obfuscated by cute little combo words, academic language, or cries of "I'm just misunderstood!"

People (including the writer of the diary itself) have felt perfectly comfortable expressing blatant bigotry on this site and in this thread - because they feel it's a safe place to do so. And, of course, they are correct.


[ Parent ]
Nanette (0.00 / 0)
as you will learn (or perhaps not) there is a difference between free speech, thought policing and hate speech.

It is a fine fucking line, one just crossed by Bushco about the US by introducing a new terror act, preassuming thought.

dh has diaried here in the past about all the anti-semites, as has karma.

No one is entirely clean.

So nice of you to stop in and only add fuel to the fire we are trying to put out.

When you never stop to contribute otherwise.

Have a nice day.


[ Parent ]
Diane (0.00 / 0)
as you will learn (or perhaps not) there is a difference between free speech, thought policing and hate speech.

It is a fine fucking line

Apparently I will not learn, because... no, the line is not a fine one at all. The only fine line is how much of each one will accept. Free speech is what it is or, rather, what the person using the terms defines it to be (even most "free speech enthusiasts" have their personal uncrossable lines, I've found).

I also find it interesting, this "thought police" term, when people are referring to written or spoken communication. If someone is expressing their thoughts or beliefs for all to see, addressing what they have said is not thought policing... otherwise how could we have this "more speech" to combat "bad speech" stuff if addressing the "bad speech" is thought policing?

And the least fine line of all, hate speech - which also comes from expressed thought or beliefs, by the way.

As I've said before, how you guys conduct your site is your problem, your right... but I will point out that y'all are tripping all over these imaginary fine lines you've drawn while others are just erasing them completely.

So nice of you to stop in and only add fuel to the fire we are trying to put out.

You can't put out the fire without setting down very clear rules of engagement and enforcing them. Otherwise, it makes more sense to go the PFF route, where everything is allowed.

Oh, and yeah, I do think it's nice of me to stop by and add fuel to the fire - or, as some put it, do the "more speech" thing that is apparently the preferred method of some in countering bigotry. I'm one of those weird people who thinks that bigotry should be confronted and exposed, wherever one finds it... and believe me, a "I hate Jews" diary at the top of the rec list, mainly (but not entirely) filled with either even more bigotry or people being understanding of the bigot, was pretty hard to miss.

I also know, from experience, how frequently bigotry or racism is dismissed or justified by the majority when it's mainly the targets of the bigotry who are protesting against it... "Oh, they would say that because they are Jews (Blacks, Latin@s, Asians, GLBT, whatever", and so how important it is that persons not in the targeted group also speak out, and strongly, whether they participate in the rest of the site or not.

I'm sorry if this offends you... well, actually, no I'm not.

Have a nice day.

You too!  


[ Parent ]
Some comments from dhonig's DKos diary, from him and others. (0.00 / 0)
A few comments from the dhonig:

Less about MSOC than (7+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Paul in Berkeley, musing85, livosh1, Cecrops Tangaroa, Kane in CA, vcmvo2, Karmafish
the rising anti-Semitism of the far left, as exemplified there.  Perhaps a fine distinction, but one (I hope) with a difference.  As for accusations of disloyalty, that's a two-edged sword, isn't it?  I post a diary on Christmas Eve.  She not only allows, but actively supports anti-Semitism and defends the anti-Semites against me and others like me:

I suppose I wanted to hear exactly what you've said in your reply -- your rationale for what is surely a painful and frustrating experience for you -- god knows it is for me.

But by all means, continue. I've taken worse shit for lesser actions than I'm taking for "allowing" you to continue posting here.

I do think, however noble your reasons for continuing (reaching some who might NOT react with reflexive anger, who might actually put the time and intellectual energy into reading beyond simplistic, neatly categorised phraseology and considering the deeper and more far-reaching elements of your arguments)... It is a lost cause. But then, I've some experience with fighting lost causes.

Awwwww, poor Prox, being all noble in the face of angry people who won't put "intellectual energy" into understanding his 'Jews=Nazis' or his 'Jews will kill the next Christ, too' garbage.  Loyalty and friendship are funny things.  They tend to fade when people shit on you too often.

Punch up your blogs and publications with cartoons from independent lefty artists.

by dhonig on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 04:50:23 AM PST

He's not arguing that the "far left" (4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:taylormattd, dhonig, Frederick Clarkson, vcmvo2
is anti-Semitic (if I may speak for him), but that there is anti-Semitism on the far left and that anti-Semitism is finding a home on MLW.

And he is, unfortunately, correct.

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." - Bertrand Russell

by Karmafish on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 10:23:00 AM PST

Paul from SF:

The really crazy part of it (4+ / 0-)
Recommended by:taylormattd, Miss Blue, Eric864, MBNYC
is that it's the Zionists that have left. Me being one of them.  Speaking for myself, I'm just fed up with the open anti-semitism and the inexplicable tolerance of it.  The making of excuses for bigotry.  

And so the crazy thing is that the haters are over there bitching that me and my fellow Zionists (!!) are trying to drive them out.  Hey, they can have the place. The stench was too much for me to hang around any longer.

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

by Paul in Berkeley on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 06:27:03 PM PST

On the Hate Mongers: the advocates for Palestinian freedom and self-determination, banned from Daily Kos:

I thought it was pretty funny (13+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Trix, acquittal, Cecrops Tangaroa, dhonig, Hardhat Democrat, andgarden, Bouwerie Boy, trashablanca, nonnie9999, blueness, GoldnI, brklyngrl, IntertubeGuy
when I glanced over there a while back and saw all the hatemongers -- previously banned from here -- who had gathered at MLW to spew their venom.

But I guess it is not really a laughing matter. They were vile and disgusting when they were here, and apparently it is now even more disgusting over there.

by livosh1 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 05:36:59 PM PST

The funny thing is (14+ / 0-)
Recommended by:livosh1, Cecrops Tangaroa, dhonig, hhex65, Hardhat Democrat, Eric864, Bouwerie Boy, trashablanca, KenBee, isis2, nonnie9999, blueness, GoldnI, IntertubeGuy
when they were here they all vehemently denied any anti-semitism and tried to keep a lid on it somewhat. But now we can see how what happens when they feel free to say what they really think.

by brklyngrl on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 05:45:37 PM PST

One of the best things (15+ / 0-)
Recommended by:livosh1, Avila, Boston Boomer, bluestateLIBertarian, Hardhat Democrat, vcmvo2, andgarden, Bouwerie Boy, trashablanca, nonnie9999, blueness, GoldnI, brklyngrl, Runs With Scissors, IntertubeGuy
ever done here was getting rid of them.  And yes, that is EXACTLY what happens when somebody creates a safe haven for any kind of hate.  Sunshine doesn't disinfect, it attract more of the same.

Punch up your blogs and publications with cartoons from independent lefty artists.

by dhonig on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 05:50:27 PM PST

I think you're right about that. (8+ / 0-)
Recommended by:Cecrops Tangaroa, Boston Boomer, Bouwerie Boy, trashablanca, nonnie9999, blueness, Runs With Scissors, IntertubeGuy
Unless people stand up and challenge that type of thing it just continues to fester. And when a group of people with those types of hateful tribalist ideas get together and egg each other on, it just makes it worse. Like attracts like and all that.

Its unfortunate, because I really did enjoy Maryscott's passion. I would lurk at MyLeftWing occasionally to read her. I can only hope she takes a good took at the road she's heading down and makes a quick 180.

by brklyngrl on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 05:59:16 PM PST

Did you catch the comment over there (3+ / 0-)
Recommended by:taylormattd, Paul in Berkeley, Cecrops Tangaroa
equating the Star of David with a Nazi Swastika?

It came from another person who had been banned from here a while ago.

My my . . . just amazing  . . . the true feelings that are revealed over there.

by livosh1 on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 02:33:59 PM PST




Silence is not an option. It merely helps to perpetuate human rights injustices.


Shergald (0.00 / 0)
wi9th all due respect, we don't need dKos shit dragged into this as well.

cease and desist.


[ Parent ]
Unfortunately, (0.00 / 0)
one of MLW's long-time frontpagers has posted MLW meta as an opportunity to smear MLW and former dKos I/P regulars (and by extension their friends and former friends) at the same time.  Dragging meta and fights from other sites is a violation of dKos community standards.  (Kicking a sick woman and her site when she's down is a violation of human decency).  Not only did that MLW frontpager suffer no ill consequences for that action, his diary made the dKos rec list on December 24.

I agree with heathlander's and callmecassandra's assessment of this diary.  In fact, even though MM may have had problems with some Jewish Defenders of Israel on this site, I see this diary as a slap in the face to every Jewish Critic of Israel who has ever been MM's ally.  


[ Parent ]
Goodbye, Cruel Jews | 187 comments


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