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Gore/Obama 2008: Have yer Cake and Eat It Too

by: durrati

Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 11:31:26 AM PST



(Just for fun on Sunday - promoted by mirrim)


Gore/Obama 2008

Now look, peeps, I have been an Obama guy since he announced, I like his style, I like his grace, his oratory chops and his sense of humor.

I'm a big fan.

But barring a sweep of the remaining primaries by either Hil or Barack (which ain't gonna happen) it's looking more and more like we are going into Denver without a nominee.

Seating the Michigan and Florida delegates(with some behind the scenes shenanigans with the superdelagates) might be enough to push Hillary over the top if she does well in the coming months, but would fracture the party and damage it's chances in the general....


durrati :: Gore/Obama 2008: Have yer Cake and Eat It Too


Frankly, I saw Obama as the winning candidate based on my assessment that Big Al did not want to run again. Given his relationship with the Clintons I was counting on his endorsement of Barack to tip the scales in Obama's favor.

So I have waited.

And waited.

No endorsement.

Has Al been having second thoughts?

From Andrew "Stumper" Romano's blog at Newsweek:

Stumper's Take: He foresaw global warming. He "took the initiative" on the Internet. And he knew exactly how Iraq would turn out. Who's to say that Al Gore hasn't known all along that the Democratic race would descend into some weird state of gridlock--and that only he, the Goracle, could rescue the party from civil war? Read on for the what if's...

By Eleanor Clift

Al Gore on the second ballot: A scenario that a few weeks ago seemed preposterous is beginning to look plausible to some nervous Democrats looking for a way out of the deadlock between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. It goes like this: We love them both, but neither is a sure bet when it comes to electability.

It's not about gender and race, each has more mundane vulnerabilities. Hillary's negatives will drive white men to John McCain; Obama's inexperience will require a gut check on the part of voters.

What if the super delegates decide not to decide, denying either candidate the requisite number of delegates to secure the party's nomination.
Democrats want to win.

The new rallying cry: Gore on the second ballot.

The last time a political convention went to a second ballot was 1952, but this is a year with so many twists and turns that nothing is impossible. Gore would be tempted on so many levels.

He would only have to endure two months of campaigning, not long enough for voters to remember what they didn't like about him eight years ago.

Gore has sat out the primary process, refusing to offer even so much as a hint of where his sentiments lie.

Years of playing second-fiddle to Hillary in the White House no doubt precluded his endorsement for her. Surely he would happily take Obama as his running mate, ending the Clinton dynasty and positioning the Democrats for a potential 16-year reign at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

A Gore-Obama ticket would be unstoppable, the thinking goes, matching the presumptive Republican nominee, McCain, on national security and experience, while embodying a powerful message of change.

The Gore second-ballot scenario isn't being seriously considered by Democratic Party leaders (as far as we know). But a number of individual high-profile Democrats are talking about it, along with any number of other ideas to end the seemingly intractable stalemate.

How could this unfold? Superdelegates are not bound to any candidate. They can do what they want, including changing their mind or withholding an endorsement until the balloting begins.

Delegates won in the primaries go to the party's convention with a signed pledge of support for a particular candidate, but one of the biggest myths of the delegate selection process, according to a Democratic National Committee document, is that delegates are bound to follow that pledge on the first ballot.

A delegate is asked to "in good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them," a provision designed in part to make the convention a deliberative body.

If Hillary's attempts to secure the nomination are seen as illegitimate, and they fail, yet Obama is not seen as a clear victor, Gore's name could be introduced.

All it would take is a delegate perhaps from Tennessee, his home state, to raise a point of order, and with backing from five other state delegations, Gore's name could be put in play as a prospective nominee.

link:
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/b...

What say you Big Al?

This Obamamaniac sees this as a reasonable scenario, if Hillary and her petty demons can manage to block Obama's nomination.

And what the hell? By her own admission, Blogmom's had a rough run of it as far as her choices for a nominee is concerned.

Maybe it's time for a change.

And you still get to stick the shiv in Hillary's back.

Beau-ti-ful.

Gore/Obama 2008

Has a nice sixteen year ring to it...


Tags: (All Tags)
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I'm still pulling (9.50 / 4)
for Barack on the first ballot, but this is a nice fallback position...





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


Political wet dreams (7.00 / 3)
are fun, aren't they?

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


can you imagine (0.00 / 0)
McCain's head exploding? Mr. 50% and Mr. new voters on the same ticket?





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


[ Parent ]
Link please? (0.00 / 0)
Thats a pretty long quote, if its the entire article we're supposed to get permission, I guess.

Interesting take, though.  


added the link (5.00 / 1)
thanx, D.





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


[ Parent ]
I LOVE IT! (6.50 / 2)
These superdelegates might come in handy after all.

Sadie Yates
RIP
2003-2008


CNN is reporting (8.00 / 3)
that Obama and John Edwards had a sit down today...would have loved to be a fly on that wall....





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


Gore/Lieberman is the hurdle (6.00 / 2)
In other news: there are 6106 voting district in NYCity.  In the primary 80 of those districts showed a 0 vote for Obama.  Including the heavily black 94th district.  Perhaps Clinton actually didn't win 139 delegates in NY to Obama's 93 after all?  Peace

Supposedly those precincts (7.50 / 2)
are being recounted, if only because 0 votes for Obama in heavily black precincts strains credulity. Even in Chicago in 1960, there were some votes cast for Nixon.

But examination of the available data leads only to the conclusion that the biggest beneficiary of the Bush Presidency is Warren Harding. (Steve Mirsky, "Antigravity", SciAm 10/05)
Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est. (Latin for All Occasions)


[ Parent ]
Hillary should do us all a favor... (8.00 / 6)
...and go quietly into that good night.

But she won't.

That's all I have to say.

Image hosting by Photobucket


The Clintons (7.75 / 4)
are formidable but not invincible....they will go down....

pardon the expression...





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


[ Parent ]
All Candidates are Killers and War Criminals (7.00 / 2)
Obama is a war criminal and a crook...just like all the other politicians running....

Amazing how you guys are all BELIEVERS....you have to believe in something or somebody who the MSM puts in front of you..

You can't look away can you?

Your afraid to look away from the MSM...

These people running are not worth consideration...their interests are purely self interest and you and nothing to them as an individual and as a member of a group ...your group has meaning only as an object to manipulate....

These people are not quite human...not anymore...they are killers and war criminals.

1 million Iraqi's dead.....and nobody ever talks about it...they talk about Security.....

They are developing insecurity...and you haven't got a clue as to why.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


in a way (0.00 / 0)
in a way I agree with you insofar as I can't really manage to bother to hope for one or the other, but in fact there is a difference choosing between negative options, none good enough does not mean each are equally bad, and there is also the symbolism... SOME of their victory really will be in the form of hope people have, yes, the hopes are likely to be dashed, but that does not kill hope. Such expectations drive progress, albeit slowly... this is why it is progress for them to even have to try to manipulate the public and sell false hopes... by pandering to us we get in the process that 500 years ago we couldn't touch, no one had to fools us much.

so I'm not so casually condemnatory as you even though I can't get too enthusiastic for any of these candidates.

-pyrrho-


[ Parent ]
what's wrong with self interests? (0.00 / 0)
We never would have had the idea of leaders for this long if it wasn't a mutually beneficial thing, would we?

This is a rather scary time to live in isn't it?

[ Parent ]
Self Interest serves nobody today (0.00 / 0)
There has to be balance and there has to be a context for self interest.

Today self interest is expressed by the centralization of corporate power worldwide. One expression is the war in Iraq where 1 million Iraqi's or so have died.

Do you want to keep believing in Leaders who promote this kind of action?

If you do you ...are a war criminal.

I'm afraid all Americans are willing or unwilling war criminals.....this has gone on so long....people are accepting, becoming accostomed, normalized to the war in Iraq.

Torture and War are now nomalized...or at least have to be considered as sane ways of resolving problems of SELF INTEREST....AMERICAN INTERESTS...

But American Interests in fact are not being served by these "leaders" ....only short term interests of profit are being served at the expense of the future....

And thats what you have to stop or we will never recover from the destruction...and that destruction will have Atomic destruction as only one of it's aspects.

Stu Piddy....a free range human


[ Parent ]
...right... (0.00 / 0)
i still think using the term 'self-interest' is completely misleading, as you point out, that short term gain means long term loss.  Loss is...(drumroll) not in anyone's self interests.  I'd say i want someone more aware of what's involved in their self interests to lead us.

This is a rather scary time to live in isn't it?

[ Parent ]
All's fair in love and a war that ends well (10.50 / 2)
Thanks, Durrati!  Now that's drawing hope and inspiration out of the impending bloodbath in Denver.

"Rules? In a knife fight?" ~ Harvey Logan, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

According to Merriam-Webster online, a "convention" is defined as:
2 a: the summoning or convening of an assembly b: an assembly of persons met for a common purpose; especially : a meeting of the delegates of a political party for the purpose of formulating a platform and selecting candidates for office.

It's a convention, not a coronation, damnit!  Haven't we seen enough of Emperors and their new clothes?  Is it too much to ask OUR delegates to do their jobs?  After all, OUR representatives in Congress have set such a stellar example over the last 14 months, it should be a piece of cake (or death).  

I watched Chuck Schumer on Face the Meat, or Eat the Press, or Stop Making Sense, or whatever talking head fluff it was this morning, desperately trying not to say that the Convention is already hopelessly deadlocked and there is no solution that will not irreparably rend the Party asunder.  He didn't convince me.

However, I have some proposals of my own for solutions to the following conundrums (conundra? sounds a little like something sexual - like electorile dysfunction?):
1. what about the Super-Delegates?
2. what about the absence of delegates from Michigan and Florida?
3. wherefore art thou Al, and John, and Ralph?
4. where is Vince Lombardi when we need him?

It's a Byrd, it's a Plame, it's Super-Waffle!  

Bill Press on his morning talk show this past week, repeatedly framed the super-delegate question in terms of a quote attributed to Obama - calling for the designation of super-delegates to the candidate who wins "the most states, the most delegates, the most votes."  Unfortunately, even that definition fails to identify a single individual candidate, since different candidates could obtain strikingly different victories as measured by each of those measures.  And WE don't even have a reliable measure of the votes that are really going to count - who's most capable of carrying enough states to win enough electoral votes to actually win the general election?  WE could easily see Obama arrive in Denver with "the most states" while Clinton could have "the most delegates" and no one would have the gall to claim that a January vote in New Hampshire is the same as an April vote in Pennsylvania when the mindset of the electorate seems to be as mercurial as the temperature.  If there's one thing WE should have learned by now, it's that people can change their minds - from one day to the next, from one issue to another, from sea to shining sea.  A huge shadow has been cast over the Convention - should WE have Punxsatawny Phil cast the deciding vote?  

A simple proposal - disallow voting by super-delegates on the first ballot.  Make them do their jobs.  They represent US.  They should arrange a convention where delegates actually have a chance to meet with the candidates, rather than waiting for some anti-climactic rigged beauty-pageant coronation orchestrated by the mechanical application of some vote-allocating formula concocted by some DNC algebraically-challenged "steering" committee.  Meet, talk, shout, and have a real discussion of all the issues that seem to concern the Party elite as well as the newly-inspired, presumably easily discouraged new-wave-voters.  Then talk to US, the poor peons at home who get to actually vote for or against these clowns in sheep's clothing.  Then, after full and open discussion (remember Chicago in '68) of the issues that SHOULD shape the platform and the choice of a candidate who could actually WIN the election, maybe WE will feel that OUR voices have been heard, that WE the people have a role to play, and that THEY will be held accountable to US.  If a single, unifying, inspirational candidate fails to emerge under those circumstances, maybe WE could see a "Draft Gore" movement arise from the ashes of self-immolation.

From Lansing to Tallahassee -

If the old guard hopes to retain any semblance of a single, united Democratic Party, they had better come up with a plan that is actually democratic.  Much as I would like to see the end of the two-party vice-grip on US politics, I don't think this is the right year to look for wholesale liquidations (Christian-Democrats for sale at 3 for a dollar; day-old Greens reduced for quick sale before self-composting, Social-Democrats veering off to the left of the blue-light special, Labor-ites struggling to raise the minimum wage while still finding sub-minimum jobs for illegal immigrants - to say nothing of the Christo-Fascist Republicons wooing Ann Coulter away from their kinder, gentler side, the Spanish Inquisition).  I do understand that it's strikingly unfair to disenfranchise the voters (or non-voters) of Florida and Michigan, but the same good ol' boys who knowingly broke the rules are the ones who stand to assume positions as super-delegates if and when their states' delegations are recognized, and they stacked the deck against Obama and others in both states.  I'd allow them to attend the convention, to participate in discussions, to help formulate a platform, and maybe even allow them to vote, but ONLY AFTER a deciding vote has been tallied and ONLY IF their votes won't make any difference.  After all is said and done, let them join in the revelry of selecting a candidate who may well become the next President, but let them learn that rules are rules, and if you choose to bring your sister to the prom, you don't get a good-night kiss (I was sorely tempted to make this metaphor a lot more graphic - feel free to fill in your own details - but I decided that when you're coining a phrase that may last for all posterity, and may decide the fate of the world as we know it, it should probably be G-rated and avoid any reference to the State of Arkansas).

Would you buy a used car from this man?



Remember the anti-Nixon campaign poster from the 60's?  Why should we care who gets which endorsement deal?  The truth is that we SHOULDN'T, but we do read the gossip rags, and the blogs, and then we make up our own and we hope someone out there cares what WE say - and then there are the voters who are not quite as well read, or informed, or opinionated, or self-righteous, or deluded, or as intelligent as we are.  As I said in an earlier unread diary, the masses are awakening, and they're ready for change, but their attachment to this particular political process may be quite tenuous.  Maybe Durrati's right, and this is Al's moment to "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World."  Or maybe just help steer it in the right, or rather left, direction.  Maybe Al Gore and John Edwards, and Ralph Nader, and Oprah Winfrey, and Caroline Kennedy can work together to bring the Party together under the big tent (or maybe we're all bozos on this bus).  On the other hand, if the Dems self-destruct, is it too late to field a Gore/Edwards team on the Green Party line in all 50 states?

Put me in, Coach; I'm ready to play!

We've survived another Super Bowl; we've puzzled over a Super Tuesday; we're baffled by the Super-Delegates - can we somehow manage to de-throne the Republicons before we descend into madness and the Democratic Party becomes a Super-fluous footnote in American History?

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." ~ Vince Lombardi



True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country. ~Kurt Vonnegut


Great comment, Sanity (0.00 / 0)
and you are right, the supers should do their job.

Candidates should be encouraged to stay in the game longer, not pushed to drop out to make things easy for the flavor of the day. The conventions should meet to decide a candidate not rubberstamp one.





"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG


[ Parent ]
if that's the way it pans out, i will be a very happy man (9.00 / 1)
mostly i want to see the DLC buried, and the clinton wing of the party along with it.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

Al Gore, No! (3.00 / 1)
I have a very brief "diary" up at the moment:

A Quick Note: A New Ralph Nader / Patti Smith Album

Al Gore is no saint. I don't recall the details, but he did a ton of dirty work for Bill Clinton --- real dirty work.

Edwards and the rest of them are CFR, and have records that reflect it. I just don't think they would make the cut with the Green Party at all.

Right now, It's Ralph Nader vs. Cynthia McKinney for the greens (I'm not sure about other players). I would go for Nader simply because, although she would make a great president, she is a black person in black skin (as opposed to Obama, who is a white person in black skin), and this would send all the racist yahoos out there into high orbit. (You would get banned at MyDD instantly for mentioning that Obama's black skin might be a political disadvantage, but they can't handle the truth. Hmm, a political blog that can't handle the truth.)

Since Obama is really white on the inside, I don't think the yahoos will give a damn. But He and Hillary are such frauds. When the Great Endless Depression of '08 hits, they are going to be as politically strong as the US dollar.


I seem to remember (6.00 / 1)
Nader endorsing John Edwards before Iowa.

This is a rather scary time to live in isn't it?

[ Parent ]


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