Obama's Liberal Budget -- and What It Portends

Doubtless... (10.80 / 5)

We shall hear, either now or soon, how this budget is NOT really liberal... or how its liberality is really just a COVER for Obama's true fascistic tendencies... or how its liberality cannot make up for the evils of Obama's warmongering ways, as evinced in his recently revealed plans to keep us in Iraq for a THOUSAND YEARS...

Sigh.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:11:03 PM CST

Personally, I think that (6.25 / 4)

Obama's budget is probably just a smoke screen for the eventual ZOG takeover of all things American.

Or maybe it was the all-powerful Jewish community in Southern California that made you change your opinion about President Obama.

I dunno.

The Cleverguy left today, and I'm kinda bummed about it.

But in general, I agree.  Although I abhor the growth of government, I hope that he is true to his word and that we will be implementing smart government (which I think is an oxymoron).

But I do believe it is the most liberal manifesto by a President since FDR.

As you say, we shall se.  

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

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by: devilishadvocate @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:19:27 PM CST

[ Parent ]

cleverguy left? (2.00 / 1)

Why? Jeez. I miss everything.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:28:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

prox drove him off, MSOC. (6.00 / 1)

That's what he said, anyway.




Lord of the Karmafishes

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by: Karmafish @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:33:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Found it. (6.75 / 4)

I emailed him.

Ludicrous.

Best response to prox: LAME response. I guarantee you, a lame response is even better than NO response. HIGHLY insulting.

What to make of someone who continues to hang around a blog where one is so totally unwelcome, where one has NO respect for any of the members? Ah: an utter misanthrope with no self-esteem. What a ball HE must be at parties.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:46:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Oh, I have to admit (6.50 / 2)

Curmudgette and I had a bit of fun respnding to prox last night when he slipped up and exposed his real feelings.

When he mentioned it was the powerful Southern California Jewish Community that has changed you, MSOC.  I imagined skuling characters in yarmulkes, following you to football practice (of course, they would have avoided the pigskin).  A page from the Bourneberg Supremacy.

That part was real fun.

The other thing, not so much.

But anyway, this is about the budget.  I think he's trying to do a ton of 'liberal agenda' things in his budget.

I, for one, am not nearly as concerned about his plans for Iraq (although my son is admittedly done with his own military service, my nephew and namesake are still serving).  I wonder if any liberal will ever admit that our headlong rush to put Vietnam behind us help set up the conditions which created the Killing Fields of Kampuchea?  I think it did, and that a reasoned, phased withdrawal would have served both us and the people of Southeast Asia better.

But, that is just me.  I don't consider his announced military plans as a betrayal.

I also applaud that he has included everything in his budget, as opposed to the tricks played by both parties in past years, with spending bills, war bills, continuing resolutions, that only resulted in hiding the amount of deficits we were running up.

I also think that by spending a massive amount up front, he stands a good chance of shortening the recession and gives himself an out on his deficit reduction plans.  I mean, if he spends $10 Trillion this year, and then cuts the deficit in 1/2, to only $5 Trillion in 2012, well at least he was telling a kind of truth.

DA is The Most Interesting Man in the World. - Karmafish

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by: devilishadvocate @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:02:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Y'know something, MSOC? (3.67 / 3)

Please do not take this the wrong way, but if you really want to understand just why MLW failed to live up to its potential, you might consider that this place became the Valley of the Banned and attracted the very worst elements in the left political tubes.

Poisonous schmuckheads, like toxicity1, and others, drove off the liberals.

Where is BuckeyeBattleCry?

Where is Frankenoid?

Why did these people leave?

It wasn't because of Jews "Zionists" and it wasn't because the conversation was too light-hearted for them.

It was because this place became overran by assholes who believe that spouting poisonous gibberish is somehow "progressive."

That's why.




Lord of the Karmafishes

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by: Karmafish @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 13:34:36 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Karma... (2.50 / 2)

And I was supposed to simply ban people left and right (so to speak) on the basis of assholery?

Thwap -- you're banned, because you're an asshole. Yes, the definition is entirely subjective, but there you have it.

I guess so.

And yes, that genie is LONG out of the bottle. I don't think there's any retrieving it.

And I'm not altogether sure I have the energy it would take to TRY to do so, even if I could.

I am, however, pretty near convinced by your arguments and Curmudgette's that proximity is the sort of douchebag who needs banning.

And so, my consistent inconsistency rears its ugly head once again.

I think what REALLY needs to happen here is my leaving MLW.

Anyone want to buy a blog?

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 13:56:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Maryscott (5.67 / 6)

this blog only works when you're here. The only time there's traffic is when you're writing and commenting. It's predictable as the weather. You disappear, so does the traffic. You reappear, it picks up. There may be ways to change the direction of it to something independent of your personality and take it in a different direction, but as it stands now, this blog is driven by your personality.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 14:12:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Grrrrrrr!!!!! (4.00 / 1)

I think that if you want to leave MLW then you should, but it should be because you no longer get any satisfaction from it, not because your departure would help matters here.

As Curm says, the reverse is true.

I don't have the fucking answers, but I am mighty pissed-off about this thing with cleverguy.

And it truly chaps my ass that the very people who are most responsible for the rivers of poison that have hurt this place turn around and blame you... and me... and Curm... and DA... and others... the very people most loyal to this blog.

As for the banning of assholes, you're right, it's too late.  But I do wonder if my theory is correct.  When I first arrived here (July '07, or thereabouts) this place was already well into its decline, according to the numbers that I have seen.

But there is no question in my mind that ultimately what we saw was a confrontation (or, really, numerous confrontations, large and small) between liberals and highly obnoxious armchair radicals.

And, needless to say, that latter group just loved to shit all over you.  The reason?  Because as the proprietor of this place they saw you as a form of authority and thus someone to be attacked.

Ridiculous, isn't it?

In any case, I very much hope that you do not leave because I still think that this blog has potential.  It'll never be what you once hoped that it would, but it can still be an ongoing and interesting project... as well as a community.

But we cannot afford to alienate the likes of cleverguy or the likes of Kathleen.  It has been the alienation of people like that that hurt this place, ultimately.

They are unquestionable not the problem... but you know that.  

I know that you do.





Lord of the Karmafishes

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by: Karmafish @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 14:38:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

you can't sell it (0.00 / 1)

Anyone want to buy a blog?

You've already given it away.

It's now a blog about dining out, and Rachel Ray's tits, and "feeling good", regardless those pesky dead Palestinians.  Who deserved what they got, because they voted for Hamas.  

Whether you like it that way or not.

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it."    Voltaire

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by: Deward Hastings @ Mon Mar 02, 2009 at 13:21:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Of course you should, Maryscott (5.50 / 2)

Banning (firing) people for purely arbitrary reasons is one of the few pleasures of being the boss around here.  Haven't you ever told Terry to do something "because I'm the Mommy?"

Try it sometime, it's FUN

In loving memory: Sophie, June 1, 1993-January 17, 2005. My huckleberry friend.

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by: Paul in San Francisco @ Mon Mar 02, 2009 at 14:40:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The sad truth, Karma, (4.80 / 5)

is that there is no working formula. They either become vapid echo chambers like DKos, because they ban people right and left for ideological reasons, or they fall to infighting. It's a toxic alchemy of the circular firing squad tendencies of the left and the disturbingly antisocial nature of internet communication. Building any sort of community around the idea that people can respectfully disagree over politics, in the consequence free environment of internet anonymity, seems doomed to fail.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 14:08:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I disagree (5.00 / 2)

By that measure, FreeSpeechZoneBlog should be a ghost blog.  

I do concur that the assholes run off some good posters, but I don't think that's the whole story.

Insert witty quote here.

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by: puzzled @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 14:32:02 PM CST

[ Parent ]

But, puzzled... (9.00 / 2)

FreeSpeechZone is populated with, for the most part, total fucking misanthropes. And MOST of the discussions there devolve VERY quickly into the sort of thing I, at least, just click away from as quickly as possible. I wouldn't in a million years want MLW or anything with my name on it to be anything LIKE FreeSpeechZone (Apologies to Jacks).

I LOATHE spending more than 5 minutes at that place. Seriously. Constant aggravation and hostility? Um, no thanks. So, if that's the price of "success," I'll pass.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 15:18:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I agree (6.33 / 3)

I have only been there a few times for that very reason.  But when I have been there, despite the sophomoric behavior (or perhaps because of it) the place is busy.

My point to Karma was that your lack of banning isn't necessarily the cause of the traffic decline here, not that the level of discourse at Jacks' place is anything you'd want to replicate.

Insert witty quote here.

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by: puzzled @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 15:31:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If I can add my two cents, (6.00 / 4)

another person that was of great value in what they offered was grunmann.  

Jan. 3rd was his last post here and without a word was gone.

I found him at WWL and can read his posting there but I am sad he left us.

It is a matter of life and death, see the documentary Food INC and vote no to corporate take over of our food every time you buy groceries  

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by: Kathleen @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 18:44:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

People come and go (9.00 / 1)

Maryscott's response is sufficient in addressing Karma's point, but I want to add my 2 cents on whether the site has "lived up to it's potential" or not, and the phenomenon of active members becoming infrequent participants and then eventually non-practicing members.

First, it might be helpful to re-evaluate whether this site had as much potential as maybe some deemed upon its creation.  I would say this is a high involvement site.  You really have to actively read and sometimes respond to the members here to get a lot from the site.  The topics range from A to Z and the authors personalities fall in a broad range too.

In other words... there are no easy filters to help a reader of this site.  It's not easy to skip whole batches of opinions and/or posts.  High involvement blogs are very time consuming for individuals and I submit are difficult to grow, as far as numbers go.

Second, people come and go.  This is the first time on the site for me in probably a year.  Frankly (excuse the semi-pun on Frankenoid's name), I am amazed at how many familiar names are still on the front page.  I am equally enthused that some new names are here indicating that the site is not stale.  That it's not the same ol' same ol'.

Finally, if there is any fundamental shortfall in the site it's that technology still does not exist to either clone fully adult and sentient Maryscott's; or, clone more hours in a day or inject more health in her bones to allow her to opine about 10 times as much as she currently does.

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by: rustydude @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 15:42:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

"Obama is probably the most (0.00 / 1)

liberal President we've had since Roosevelt" is a Republican talking point and don't mean shit to a tree.  Peace

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by: imhotep @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:46:30 PM CST

Eat me, douchebag. (9.00 / 1)

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:47:03 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Not with Karmafish's mouth (8.00 / 1)

would I eat you. Peace

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by: imhotep @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:52:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Ah-ha-ha-ha!!!!! n.t (0.00 / 0)

Lord of the Karmafishes

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by: Karmafish @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 19:59:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

so maybe it don't mean shit to a tree (9.00 / 1)

but damn, that's GOOD news in my book! What's the problem?

laughter makes you live longer

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by: danl318 @ Sun Mar 01, 2009 at 06:45:27 AM CST

[ Parent ]

And, really (7.50 / 2)

what would mean shit to a tree?  Are they sentient beings like the Ents in Lord of the Rings?  Do they care about politics?  Do they read newspapers, or boycott them because they're made from wood pulp?

Other than sunlight and water, is anything all that important to them?  I mean, technically, shit would be a good thing if you were a tree, because of its nutrient value, so maybe "meaning shit to a tree" is a positive.

I really should go back to bed.


Insert witty quote here.

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by: puzzled @ Sun Mar 01, 2009 at 07:52:40 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I am pleased (7.80 / 5)

No, he isn't St. Obama, and I disagree with some of his efforts to be bipartisan, if for no other reason than I know they'll throw them back in his face, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

The absolute frothing-mouthed furor the right expresses at pretty much every action he's taken since January 20th also warms my cold, cold heart.

I had someone ask me today if I thought this budget was the legislative equivalent of the Reichstag Fire.  Yeah--the right is extremely freaked out, and it feels very, very, good.


Insert witty quote here.

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by: puzzled @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:01:39 PM CST

You're Mostly Right I Think (4.00 / 2)

His initial steps had people scratching their heads....Gates?  Geithner? Maybe this guy is a moderate.  Then the budget came.

That's not a budget of a moderate.  It's prima facie old school Keynesian/FDR/fuck it liberal.  He's literally undoing what Reagan did.

Here's where we part. Equating being a Progressive with being Anti-War, Anti-US Hegemony, War Powers, Imperial Presidency etc. is a modern construct.  It's a narrative built Post-Vietnam.  FDR was a ballbuster.  So was LBJ.  So was Kennedy.

President Obama all but said Iraq was a righteous war in North Carolina today.  He ran around in 2007 saying I'll have the Troops out of Iraq in 2009.  They'll be out in 2011, maybe. You're right, he moved GITMO EAST to Afghanistan.  He's being proactive on Drones.  He's fighting to keep many of Bush's intelligence programs.

So, he's in keeping with former respected Democrat Presidents who did things in terms of "social & economic justice."  Question is, does this seem like a Faustian bargain to Post Vietnam progressives?

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:24:59 PM CST

B.S. this... (0.00 / 0)

"President Obama all but said Iraq was a righteous war in North Carolina today."

He clearly said to the troops that the war was a mistake but they had done what was asked of them.

Different thing all together...

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:56:31 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Durrati (0.00 / 0)

I think it's not helpful to anyone to be in denial about that speech.  Heck, it wasn't lost on anyone I was with when we heard it.  Jaws dropped.  Go read the speech again..

To understand where we need to go in Iraq, it is important for the American people to understand where we now stand. Thanks in great measure to your service, the situation in Iraq has improved. Violence has been reduced substantially from the horrific sectarian killing of 2006 and 2007. Al Qaeda in Iraq has been dealt a serious blow by our troops and Iraqs Security Forces, and through our partnership with Sunni Arabs. The capacity of Iraqs Security Forces has improved, and Iraqs leaders have taken steps toward political accommodation. The relative peace and strong participation in Januarys provincial elections sent a powerful message to the world about how far Iraqis have come in pursuing their aspirations through a peaceful political process.

That's a bit of the speech.  There's nothing in the entire speech that bolsters your argument. If there's any concession it's drowned out by statements like this..

And so I want to be very clear: We sent our troops to Iraq to do away with Saddam Husseins regime - and you got the job done. We kept our troops in Iraq to help establish a sovereign government - and you got the job done. And we will leave the Iraqi people with a hard-earned opportunity to live a better life - that is your achievement; that is the prospect that you have made possible.

I rest my case.  

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:20:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

towards the end of the speech (0.00 / 0)

he also said this:

There are many lessons to be learned from what we've experienced. We have learned that America must go to war with clearly defined goals, which is why I've ordered a review of our policy in Afghanistan. We have learned that we must always weigh the costs of action, and communicate those costs candidly to the American people, which is why I've put Iraq and Afghanistan into my budget. We have learned that in the 21st century, we must use all elements of American power to achieve our objectives, which is why I am committed to building our civilian national security capacity so that the burden is not continually pushed on to our military. We have learned that our political leaders must pursue the broad and bipartisan support that our national security policies depend upon, which is why I will consult with Congress and in carrying out my plans. And we have learned the importance of working closely with friends and allies, which is why we are launching a new era of engagement in the world.

a clear repudiation of the origins of the war....

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:39:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sorry (0.00 / 0)

you can't put the Genie back in the Bottle.  That concession doesn't even come close the the enormous concession of the parts of the speech I highlighted.  It's a hearty repudiation of his previous statements and the Anti-War movement.  It just is.  I was with a noted Conservative today when the speech was happening.  He nearly shit himself when those lines came out.  

Plus, he's hell bent on taking out the remaining infrastructure of Al Qaeda in Pakistan/Afghanistan. Working on the issue of Pakistan and Radial Islam. You note he thanked the troops for taking out AQI.  He didn't do the "they weren't there before Bush got us into this war" meme.

I find this interesting.  I reject his domestic policy on principle but I'm cued up to respect the hell out this guy regardless because of his cajones.  You seem to be trying some logical jujitsu to explain away the obvious.  

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:54:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

He's CIC now (0.00 / 0)

what's he supposed to do, tell a bunch of recruits that they are a dupes?

And yes, he is concerned with radical Islam in Paki, anybody who isn't is an idiot.

Pakistan is not Iraq, they got the bomb. There may be nothing we can do to stop the Taliban but it may be incumbent on us to try.  

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 22:23:19 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Clever (0.00 / 0)

I guess words dont' matter when it doesn't fit your own personal narrative.  I stand by my statements.  If you want to be intractable, so be it.  Not like it's a big shock.

The "dupes" line is a fucking disgrace. Frankly.  See, the truth is, the Right doesn't hate President Obama.  They hate pukes you like you.  Cowards who have the nerve to call your fellow Americans "dupes" because you're just soooo smart and have it all figured out and those "dupes" are cannon fodder while you shop for Soy Products at Whole Foods, safe in your Ivory Tower.  ...Our President made you look a fucking fool today. Live with it.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 22:32:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

<i>I</i> wasn't calling them dupes (0.00 / 0)

read again and maybe you'll get it right.

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 23:01:49 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Hubris (0.00 / 0)

"tell a bunch of recruits that they are dupes."  Explain that.  He was speaking at Camp Lejeune, NC.  The home of the Marines, to Marines.  Don't be too pussy to own up to what you said.  You meant it, you said it.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 23:31:57 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I was sayin' (0.00 / 0)

that's what you think of them...

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 00:03:32 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Let me tell you, Phil, (9.25 / 4)

what my husband told me before he left for Kuwait in 2003.  He instructed me that in the event that he did not return from Iraq, that I was to make very clear to all concerned that he died for "nothing." It doesn't make him a dupe, because he knew full well it was based on bullshit, but it does make him ill used by reckless foreign policy. There are plenty of people in the armed services who need to believe that it's a worthwhile sacrifice, and I've seen some put themselves into deliberate cognitive dissonance to do so. But, it's not universal. My husband was not the only Marine on that plane who thought the whole thing was bullshit.

Obama gave a fairly smart, politic speech, and honored the service of men and women who continue to sacrifice a lot in this strange turn of foreign policy. He did, however, make one egregious error. As Rachel Maddow pointed out, we did not go war in Iraq to remove Saddam from power. We went to "disarm him." What a fucking joke. It brings me no joy to see Obama spouting revisionist history.

However, the rest of your quoted text is true. The troops continue to fulfill the missions given them. To honor that service is appropriate. Doesn't make the overall mission good or sensible, which, as Duratti points out, he stated in his smooth, politic way. This is what makes him a gifted politician. He can walk very fine rhetorical lines and do it with style.

the Right doesn't hate President Obama

Not all of them, certainly, But you might want to pay some attention to the lunatics among your ranks who are calling for armed insurrection on Hannity's message board, or Alan Keyes saying our military is justified in not following the CINC's orders, or the rest who continue to flog this insane "Obama is not a citizen" crap. Some of it is a little scary. It is, in fact, treason. And it continues to be fomented with the same rabidity that has defined the GOP for years.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 23:34:58 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Curmudgette (0.00 / 0)

I thought you respected me enough not to regurgitate a segment from "Countdown" that KO took from Think Progress.  Because if you did, I'm to believe a national movement is afoot and the proof of that is a post on a talk show hosts website.  

You don't seriously want me to believe that's what you believe?

Do you know what most Conservatives think of Alan Keyes?  

They don't think of him.  Ever.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 00:15:23 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Where it appears (7.50 / 2)

is kind of irrelevant. I'm not saying there's a movement, either. I said there's a lunatic fringe on the right. A loud one. I'm saying there is chatter that amounts to treason. Has Hannity removed that shit from his message board? Has Limbaugh dialed back his "I hope Obama fails" rhetoric. There's a real doublestandard when it comes to how the far left and far right are treated in this country. I've heard some scary shit from some leftists, but they don't get the ear of the party. The lunatic fringe of the right has far more sway than they should.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 00:25:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Here, for instance, (6.00 / 1)

is a Think Progress item. I know it's true, because there's a video. They document their shit. Trying to discredit the source of an item only makes sense if you can demonstrate that what they've reported isn't true. Hell, I have bookmarks of Fox reports, because they're verifiable. More and more news outlets are blatantly biased now. It's not like when I was in school taking endless classes in media and journalism. But, I digress.

CPAC audience erupts in applause when it's suggested that Obama is not a US citizen. No, they don't hate Obama.

Here's another one. The CPAC audience finds it absolutely hilarious when John Bolton jokes about Iran nuking Chicago.

So tell me. What do most conservatives think of CPAC?

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 00:59:49 AM CST

[ Parent ]

There's (0.00 / 0)

something very pure about pure partisanship.  It's also deeply disturbing.  I'm not sure which one overrides.  "They Document their Shit."  You would laugh at me if I said Hotair.com or Little Green Footballs.com documents "their shit."  They have video too. Don't be a hypocrite. Bolton was making a point about a comment Our President made about Iran during the campaign.  He wasn't joking about Iran nuking Chicago.  The "laughter" was at the "naive" comment.  

Has "Hannity removed that shit from his message board."  Shit, I don't know.  Who gives a shit.  You're taking KO's lead and assigning some value to nothing.  Ever looked into who controls Think Progress?  You want to mangle me by casting some doubt of the veracity of their "reporting"?  How do you feel about a caller to a talk show, a sycophant drooling at the hosts every word?  You're no different. "They document their shit."  Please.

Pure partisanship is not pure.  It stinks.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 01:55:56 AM CST

[ Parent ]

There is something (0.00 / 0)

about pure partisanship that is very disturbing. It's well exhibited by the items I've referenced. And, I'm sorry, but I've never seen such pure partisanship as I have with conservative groups in recent years. I'm well aware of the context of Bolton's remark and it makes it no better. What bullshit. I have ears. There is no laughter or even any reaction until he says "Chicago." It's fucking creepy. Especially in the context of years in which it's been perfectly acceptable to make liberals, in this country, the enemy, and justify any kind of violent and degrading talk about them perfectly fine.

If comments like the ones on Hannity's board were made about Bush on any liberal site, the right would go fucking crazy. O'Reilly would be giving himself a stroke. And, you know what. I'd be in agreement with them. If that kind of shit showed up on this board, leave say, it's one of the few things I would advocate deleting. I'm no fan of censorship, but illegal statements, which those are, aren't protected.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 07:27:47 AM CST

[ Parent ]

One other thing (0.00 / 0)

because I kind of can't believe your comment. What the fuck do soy products have to do with anything? I'm not a fan of textured soy, myself. I don't digest it well and the phytoestrogens make me nervous. But, my husband lives on soy, because he's a vegetarian. Not from Whole Foods so much. We don't have one handy. But supermarkets carry soy products as does every commissary we've ever shopped in. Now, can we dispense with the stereotypes?

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 00:20:22 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Sure (0.00 / 0)

I think we can.  You dispense of stereotypes right?  You don't stereotype anyone, so I'm sure that mankind can figure out how to overcome that compunction.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 01:59:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Let me tell you (0.00 / 0)

what I don't do. I don't diss someone I disagree with by mocking them for cracking a six of Bud and watching some NASCAR.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 07:13:45 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Well (0.00 / 0)

That stereotype was on the tip of your tongue right?  The Bud, the NASCAR.  So it's kind of an insult by proxy.  I like Single Malt Scotch and NASCAR and Jazz and I read left wing blogs and listen to my Tom Waits and Bob Dylan and I'm a Conservative.  Always a bit of truth in sterotypes.  The Soy, the Meditation phase, reading Zinn, high priced coffee, the therapy, taking Bill Moyers seriously.  We all have our touchstones.

You're a good egg Curmudgette.

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 01, 2009 at 21:50:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

You know why (0.00 / 0)

it's on the tip of my tongue? Because Republicans have made such an issue of it. It wouldn't even be on my radar, otherwise. I've just been hearing for so many years that I, by default, as a liberal, look down on NASCAR dads and blue collar folks, in general. I don't. I loathe NASCAR, but then, every sport other than football bores me to within an inch of my sanity. Even when I drank, I thought Bud was pisswater, and I think most people would be better off if beer wasn't an integral part of the family budget. If I have a general thumb about blue collar Republicans, it's that I find it tragic that the people who have the least to gain from a political ideology are some of its strongest supporters. I'm also well aware that NASCAR has fans that cut across a lot of demographic lines.

I don't go in much for stereotypes. There is often some truth in them, because they're based on certain patterns in subcultures. But, I always try to look at the individual, and remember that everybody is somebody's baby.

Thanks, and I think you're a good chicken embryo, too.

(For the record: I've covered the soy thing. Meditation is not a phase, for me. It's a way of life. On Zinn, I could never get passed the mixed metaphors, much like Tom Friedman. Unreadable. I love coffee and quality matters far more than price. I usually look for something delicious and affordable. I believe therapy has value, but is limited in its ability to effect transformation. I like Bill Moyers and I certainly think a number of the subjects he deals with are serious and are largely ignored by the mainstream press, so I'm thankful for what he brings to my attention.)  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

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by: Curmudgette @ Mon Mar 02, 2009 at 07:51:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I have been intrigued (10.00 / 4)

...watching the way Obama has operated.  Of course, you know he's playing the left blogosphere to go all nuclear on their Congresscritters.  And building public support outside the establishment.  He operates indirectly.

What is interesting about this budget is not what it contains or the the dollar figures he puts on it.  What is interesting is he is wanting Congress to negotiate the details with him as the appropriations move through Congress.  All he has presented so far is a 146-page outline with dollar totals. Bush budgets were thousands of pages of spreadsheets down to the line-item that were immediately DOA in Congress.  Wasted clerical work in other words.

I suspect the appropriate committees are working on the details for the appropriation bills, which means that this process should look a lot like the process the stimulus bill went through.  Obama announces a $750 billion stimulus;  House Appropriations presents the bill after markup in committee (only this time the full committee process, "regular order", will take place).  As long as the Appropriations are close to the monetary targets and fulfill the programmatic objectives, Obama will support it.  But it will be Congress's bill.  Like the $787 billion final stimulus package.

And true to his word, the budget contains entitlement reform.  It seeks to put unemployment insurance on a basis in which it is an automatic economic stabilizer instead of a political football by setting rules for the automatic extension of benefits in times of high and long unemployment.  That's a reform that I can support.

In fact, the budget does not do enough, but coupled with the stimulus package appropriations for 2010 it is much better than the stimulus alone.

The big question is can the Congress get the appropriations in place before the end of FY 2009 on September 30 and avoid a continuing resolution.  If Obama can pull that one off, I think he can get a good part of his agenda through the Congress.

So far, all he does with regard to healthcare is put in place the emergency Medicaid, COBRA subsidy, and health information technology parts of the stimulus.  And cobble out $638 billion in savings in the FY 2010 budget.  It will be interesting to see if he has the pieces in place to implement healthcare reform before he puts his plan on the table to be shot at by the industry lobbyists.

It is helpful to watch what he does instead of what he says or how he negotiates.  It is turning out to be very subtle and to focus on changing process before changing policy.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

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by: TarheelDem @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:43:13 PM CST

Fake right, drive left (9.00 / 4)

and if a lane opens up in the middle take it to the basket....

It's good to see the 'thugs on defense...

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 20:54:00 PM CST

Right the Fuck On (4.00 / 1)

I've seen that "Fake Right, Drive Left" line on two dozen blogs. It's more accurate to say, "Fake Right, Drive Left on Domestic Issues, sometimes."

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:22:53 PM CST

[ Parent ]

and I've seen your (0.00 / 0)

Obama is merely more of the same everywhere...seems neither one of us is exactly originol...

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

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by: durrati @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 22:26:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

One other note (4.00 / 1)

Why Obama is so interested in bringing down the deficit (and ultimately the national debt).

The interest on the national debt is a roughly $250 billion to $300 billion transfer of wealth from all taxpayers to a subset of taxpayers who are by and large more well off (and to a few foreign governments).  A classic dooH niboR situation.

Being a deficit hawk is progressive so long as we keep our eyes on where the revenues are coming from and exactly what spending will be cut.  "Military acquisition reform" could be a biggie if Gates plays it straight instead of the usual military-industrial complex gaming.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

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by: TarheelDem @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:13:17 PM CST

Well (0.00 / 0)

that's not really true.  He had his Budget Czar Peter Orzog? out on TV yesterday saying a short term (2 Year) deficit wasn't a bad thing.  I also heard Rachel Maddow asking him, why say it? (because you may not be able to ante up.)  But, it's being said.

Plus, the narrative on the Left for years has been about the Republicans "high deficits."  He used it on the campaign trail.  It's not shocking to see him championing lower deficits in the long term.  

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by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Feb 27, 2009 at 21:25:46 PM CST

[ Parent ]

A short-term deficit (6.00 / 2)

A short-term deficit is not a bad thing, but once the economy is productive again, the agenda needs to be to bring down the deficit.

The narrative on the left reflects the truth.  Republican administrations for the past thirty years have run up the deficit.  The one Democratic administr brought it down.  It is more than narrative, it is borne out in the data.

My point is that the structure of revenues and spending are important aspects of whether deficits can be brought down.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

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by: TarheelDem @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 08:34:06 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Each Day (0.00 / 0)

Supports my "Alex of Arcadia" stance placing it on solid ground. Should I wait to see what happens or point out the obvious "hattery" of what I see now.

First even speed readers can't read 1000 pages in 24 hours.  Second I don't relish the fact my medical records are going into an IT system that "They" (yes them them) consider unsafe.  The president can't have a blackberry.

The recent "waffling" on torture, war and the Orwellian police surveillance state will in fact become more evident but all of this should be traded for a real 911 investigation.

Green stuff-While I fully realize we are screwing up the enviornment a CO2 tax simply places all of the focus on lowering your former lifestyle and increasing government and corporate control over you.  Note here I fully endorse the theory of "They already have free and cheap energy for all yet supress it to enhance their control over all mankind."

With government like this I want a gun, and a good hiding place.
See ya'll at the refugee camp!

Surfing the Apocalypse-So you don't have to!

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by: Lasthorseman @ Sat Feb 28, 2009 at 07:42:53 AM CST