America is NOT "Cool Again". It Never Was, and It Oughta Acknowledge That Fact.

Tips and recs appreciated. (8.00 / 5)

As long as I don't have to sleep with the fishy Onassis types of this world, of course.

I'd rather sleep with the fishes.

I really would.

Later...

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 11:00:23 AM CST

When you're right you're right (6.00 / 1)

AG and there is very little to argue about in what you've written.  I am a tad more optimistic about coming out of the mess that we're in, though, than  you are.  Time will tell.  Peace

---

by: imhotep @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 11:16:34 AM CST

While you (9.00 / 2)

While you are quick to display incendiary photos of the bad in the world during this period you neglect to show the photos of the world's population imitating the fashion, the slang, and the "cool" of America. Despite our inherent evil our shores were teaming with immigrants who wanted to be a part of this nation. It's funny how one's opinion of their home is always different from those who are outside and wanting in...

From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth; from the laziness that is content with half-truths; from the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth – oh God of Truth deliver us!— Unknown The Disputed Tr

---

by: Forgiven @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 11:53:52 AM CST

"Incendiary photos"? (6.00 / 1)

 Is that a sly sense of humor that I see in your pocket or are you just not so glad to see me?

Imiatating the fashion, the slang, the "cool" of America.

i was in Vietnam and Bangkok for long enough during that time (Or soon afterwards, anyway, as a non-combatant.) to see that the people who were "imitating" that stuff were mostly indentured whores who spent the majority of their time on their backs with their legs up in the air being fucked by America and Americans. Whores and their pimps, up and down the scale of whoredom from kings to sidewalk sluts.

And our shores were "teeming" with immigrants who knew that this was where the money was, Forgiven. Dassit. THAT ios why they were here. It wasn't about fashion, it was about enough to eat and a place to sleep.

Bet on it.

Didn't see no Frenchmen of Swedes "teeming" over here, didja? Imitating? Imitating Jerry Lewis and Elvis, maybe. The shallow ones is all. The rest? Naaaaahhhh...they looked down their long noses at us. I was there, too. If they were "imitating" anyone, it was our own dispossessed.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 12:24:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

AG (7.00 / 4)

Kindly give me an example of a "cool" nation, society?  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 16:51:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

John Lennon lived in the sovereign nation of "Bag" (8.00 / 2)

That was pretty cool.

Pee for your Corporate Overlords

---

by: digdugboy @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 21:27:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah (6.00 / 2)

I lived in Holland for a while. I like one particular aspect of that but for the most part its a country of Euros who watch American TV.

This country is far more interesting.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 21:47:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

AG: Mending fences / Clarification Question (10.50 / 2)

First, I apologize for my rude behavior as of late.  I'd try to give some excuses, but who doesn't have shit going on in their lives?  So I'll just say I'm sorry, and I'd like to try again with you.  I'll admit that I was in the wrong in how I interacted with you, and I'll say that I want to try and be at least chilly with each other, if not cool.

Second, I have a question for clarification in your essay:  are we arguing over whether Obama and his crew themselves are cool, or are we arguing over whether America is cool?  I don't mean this question as a challenge, more as a point of clarification.  I'm reserving judgment until I think I understand the discussion.

That being said, this was a really good essay.  Whether I agree with your points or not, I am withholding judgment (as I said), but you are undeniably good at what you do.  

Once again, I'm sorry for how I was.  Give me a second chance.  Thanks.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 13:11:52 PM CST

A-hole...er AG.. (10.75 / 4)

and how many hungry kids would your licorice stick feed and why ain't it on E-Bay?

Jackie married Onassis because he could provide refuge for herself and her children from the people that murdered her husband and her brother-in-law.

And Jack wasn't shot because of the Bay of Pigs, he was shot for vowing to dismantle the CIA and get out of 'Nam.

And don't get me started on your precious France's history of colonialism in 'Nam and Algeria.

There are many bad mofos in the world and we have our share of 'em here in the USA. They are why we come here and write and rant and piss and moan... otherwise we'd all be thinking about what's for din din in the communal chow hall of Watermelon Sugar.

You can't even admit it's nice to have a Prez that says "Give it up for Stevie Wonder, Folks!" in the house where Reagan and W plotted and napped.

Sad.

"Fascism is attracting the dregs of humanity- people with a slovenly biography - sadists, mental freaks, traitors." - ILYA EHRENBURG

---

by: durrati @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 15:08:54 PM CST

In Watermelon Sugar (6.75 / 4)

What a strange, beautiful, wonderful little book.

That is all. Carry on.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 15:43:44 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Some say he was shot (0.00 / 0)

because he was going to demand that the Israelis dismantle their "secret" nuclear program and raze their nuclear site at  Dimona(KAMAG).  But, the Mafia and CIA shit is a good cover story for the uninformed. See: Avner Cohen's "Israel and the Bomb (1998)  Peace  

---

by: imhotep @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 19:29:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Do you believe that's the reason (0.00 / 0)

JFK was shot?

Pee for your Corporate Overlords

---

by: digdugboy @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 21:30:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Get real, durrati. (0.00 / 0)

#1-Nobody calls it a "licorice stick anymore. How the fuck old are you? Or probably more accurately...how the fuck square are you?

Plus...I don't play the clarinet. Almost nobody plays contemporary American style musics on the clarinet.

You live in the past, and judging from the rest of this statement it isn't even the real past.

Why isn't my instrument on ebay?

Because I play real music for real people on it. Live and unedited. Live and unabridged. Live and from the heart. You oughta try listening to some of it instead of cracking wise about shit about which you are obviously totally ignorant.

You might actually learn something.

"Licorice stick"!!!

What? You think Steve Allen in that terrible Benny Goodman movie is "jazz"? The Lawrence Welk Show? The Glenn Miller Story?

Lord.

Get real.

No wonder Artie Shaw gave up.

#2-Jackie O and her children needed no protection.

They had no power.

Why kill 'em? Things were messy enough as it was.

#3-JFK was shot because he crossed a lot of people. And the Mafia was most definitely involved. All you have to do is check out Jack Ruby to know THAT shit. The mob thought that it was going to get Cuba back after helping him win in Illinois and West Virginia. Bet on it. They also thought he'd lay off of them. Instead he sicced Bobby on 'em. C'mon, fool. What country have you been living in?

#4-Where does that "My precious France" thing come from? Yer dreamin'. My precious America  if anything. I am about 5000 lived-and-died-on-this-continent ancestors American/ New York City (from New Amsterdam times), and I am still here, still fighting. I make American music. REAL American music, as in all Americans, black, brown, beige and any other damned color you can think of.  What do you do for a living? Dream of the good old days?

#5-

There are many bad mofos in the world and we have our share of 'em here in the USA. They are why we come here and write and rant and piss and moan... otherwise we'd all be thinking about what's for din din in the communal chow hall of Watermelon Sugar.

This borders on a printed psychotic episode. What the fuck are you talking about? Do you even know? Richard Brautigan? 1968? man, that's 40 years ago!  And it was dated then.

#6-I like having Obama in the White House. Better than any President in my lifetime, for sure. But I think that he is on the wrong image track. Too many expensive suits surrounded by too many empty ones. He needs to get down, not dress up.

But why bother talking to  you?

Go suck on your own licorice stick.

Unbelievable.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 03:36:07 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Durrati (4.00 / 1)

How do you justify your comments about the "Glenn Beck's of the Left" in your other diary when engaging in conspiracy theories yourself?

Just curious.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 16:19:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Camelot (10.50 / 2)

Hundreds of kids to play with from returning soldiers on 1/4 acre lots.
Baseball teams in the vacant lot or building forts in the woods.  Chasing the train or collecting the crushed pennies left on the tracks and riding our bikes three towns away to the hobby store, alone at age twelve.

The milkman came twice a week and if I was sick the doctor came to the house.  Dad made the money and Mom stayed home.  Schools provided field trips, sports teams, music and art classes, even taught drivers ed, all for "free".  Every possible fun thing, summer or winter might be had with friends and their Dads who had vacation homes, backyard pools or boats.  Everything was closed on Sunday and Fourth of July meant something, with real fireworks that even you yourself could touch off.

Such an idyllic background, such CHANGE.

God, Lord, ya, you know I've had a great life and just to show my appreciation so if you ever decide to smite all these people can I have that last horsie ride?

CNN is so lame.
http://www.blacklistednews.com/

Surfing the Apocalypse-So you don't have to!

---

by: Lasthorseman @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 15:29:09 PM CST

1785 (0.00 / 0)

We had kicked out the British, and were being run by a group of elected officials.  We hadn't written the racist crap into the Constitution yet.  We had tyrants scared everywhere.

We were way cool.

Matt Flynn

---

by: flynnieous @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 17:12:10 PM CST

"We hadn't written the racist crap into the Constitution yet" (11.00 / 1)

Hmm.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

---

by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 18:31:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yeah, the 3/5ths Clause (0.00 / 0)

Even then we white boys were jealous of their enormous schlongs so we had to have them be only 3/5ths of a person for calculating representation in the House so as to assuage our poor egos.

Pee for your Corporate Overlords

---

by: digdugboy @ Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 21:33:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The "3/5ths clause" (6.00 / 1)

was not about racism so much as it was about the struggle for power between Democratic-Republicans and Federalists.

The 3/5ths clause was not about racism.

Slaver was about racism.

The 3/5ths clause was about the contest for control over the Legislative body.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 00:14:04 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Yep (5.00 / 2)

The question was "In apportioning the House, do you count free male citizens or all people?"

The South wanted to count all people because it would give them larger representation and several classes of those people didn't vote, making it easier for the powers-that-be to exert control.

The non-South wanted to count just free citizens, which would give it more of an advantage than counting all people.

The resulting compromise was all people but slaves AND 3/5 of the number of slaves.

The racism was implicit in the slavery, which no one in the Congress wanted to deal with at that point.  It was understated background.

Want a third party -- 50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts -- Go get 'em

---

by: TarheelDem @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 18:48:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I had the very same thought (0.00 / 0)

Perfect example of my cattle prod theory of big electronic media influence.  Race,bigot,race in the "news" 24/7
Zap
Zap
Zap.

Surfing the Apocalypse-So you don't have to!

---

by: Lasthorseman @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 08:44:36 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Hell, flynnieous.."we" did not HAVE to write racism into the Constitution. (10.00 / 1)

It was a fact of life, part of the assumed natural order of things like air, water and farm animal usage. get real.

We had indeed kicked out the British, just as the U.S. has been kicked out of a number of nations recently and will be kicked out of more in the coming months and years, and not always by "cool" groups either.

Our elected officials were as jive as are every other group of governmental officials, elected or not. The hustlers always end up running the show while the real folks like Thomas Paine get screwed.

Tyrants were not "scared" of us. At least they weren't until we got REALLY jive and really powerful, and then we frightened them only because we became an effective competitor to their own tyranny.

We were way cool?

You have bought your hypno-media/hypno-edumacational myth branding right down to your toe bones.

Wake the fuck up. The U.S. got lucky.

You play any poker?

If you do then you should know that every lucky streak ends eventually.

And there you jolly well are, aren't you.

We are now playing the cards that we dealt to ourselves. Every crooked game eventually gets busted.

Bet on it.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 11:21:28 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Lucky (6.00 / 1)

I guess the US got a "lucky" a bunch of times.

I suppose it was "luck" when a President signed an important piece of legislation or SCOTUS ruled on an important case.  Or US Grant and the Union Army got their shit straight or Hitler was "unlucky" on and on.  That ol' luck thing sure if a motherfucker, bite you right in the ass eh AG.

You must have yelled "Lucky Shot" from your manse in Brooklyn when those planes made their marks.  That was "luck" right?

This is my talking to a wall thing.  AG is too pussy to respond to me (he'll say I don't deserve it etc) or maybe he's getting ready to participate in or listen to Nutjob Radio for 20 people.  It is Friday after all.  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 16:28:24 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yah. I'm well known to be a weakilng on every level. (0.00 / 0)

And you are a sexist asshole, just for starters.

"Pussy", eh?

Stupid, too.

Why keep this moron around, Marycott? Isn't there enough comic belief...errr, I mean relief...on this site as it is?

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 22:45:45 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Do me a favor (0.00 / 1)

AG, get me reinstated at WWL because this place is rapidly becoming a wasteland full of right wing, apologist nut jobs?  Thanks.  Peace  

---

by: imhotep @ Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 09:20:06 AM CST

[ Parent ]

Wow (7.50 / 2)

how do you get booted off WWL?  

Did you make some negative crack about Leni Reifenstahl?  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 09:17:10 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually, I believe that (0.00 / 1)

I compared you to Osama bin Laden and gottleib thought that I should apologize for making an unfair comparison and sullying bin Laden's good name.  But, then again, perhaps it was something else.  Peace

---

by: imhotep @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 11:17:20 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Well (8.00 / 1)

that makes sense.  Sullying the reputation of any Islamic Fascist must be grounds for banning over there.  

Tip:  next time you get banned.  Write some screed about President Obama being a stooge for AIPAC or the WTO and Obama's World Domination Scheme and you'll be back in the game.  You can't be a little bit pregnant with crazy...know what I mean.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 15:57:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Imhotep was banned (7.33 / 3)

at the blog that shall go nameless for racism, antisemitism, and hate speech.

See here and here.

Further exposition here.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to start or exacerbate anything by invoking that other site. Just trying to clarify the record, so as to avoid inevitable distortion and revisionism.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 12:08:44 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Clarification re: imhotep (0.00 / 0)

I received an email from herself. She wanted it to be clear that imhotep was not the person who was banned for harassment, referenced in the second link I provided. I had no idea what she was talking about, so I took another look. It's in the comments, which I had not read. But, to be clear, the portion to which I was referring was just this phrase, in the first section of the diary:

despite the fact I banned Imhotep when he crossed the line into hate

So, just in case there was any confusion, imhotep was banned for hate speech, not harassive email.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 18:25:15 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Did you or anyone else (0.00 / 0)

find the comment that I made to be "hate" speech?  Or was gottleib up to something other than simply culling me from the herd?  I get the distinct impression that he and Diane were working in tandem to make some point with a person, other than me, who will go unnamed at this time.  Didn't gottleib guit MLW within days of having Diane declare me a "hate" speaker?  Something was afoot and who the conspirators are is yet to be made clear.  Peace    

---

by: imhotep @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 07:10:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

I'm sure that someone with (6.00 / 1)

way more time on their hands than I have, or care to invest in poking around that site, can bring up your comment history and come to their own conclusions. I've long thought that you sidle right up to the edge of hate speech. I find it quite believable that you crossed that line on the other site.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 08:37:08 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Awww (4.33 / 3)

AG, why don't you address my point (about "Luck") and not pawn off your faux outrage about the word "pussy" to sidestep what you originally said.

I thought you were a grizzled  veteran of Jazz clubs and world travel and here you are asking me to be booted off a site because of a pejorative.  You need someone to hold your hand and stroke your hair while you actually reply to what I wrote?

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 09:13:43 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Actually, I would be glad to see you go because you are an entirely negative influence. (0.00 / 0)

Your sexism is only a small part of how wrong you are.

I have been steadily opposed to banning people from this site or any other site. It takes a real asshole to make me  want that.

You fit the bill.

Don't worry. It probably won't happen. The last total asshole who clogged up this site with his rancid shit was eventually welcomed back with open arms.

So it goes.

Have fun fucking with people.

Everybody needs a hobby.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 14:08:18 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

You think that HE is negative? (7.25 / 4)

In a diary in which you essentially tell us that the US sucks?

And he's a negative influence?

Wow.

That is some kinda crazy cognitive dissonance ya got going there, for sure.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 15:42:35 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

ZING! n/t (7.00 / 1)

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:08:31 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Still (0.00 / 0)

no response to my initial statement.  You need to thicken that skin up partner.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 15:51:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

He's not going to answer you, (0.00 / 0)

because he can't answer you, because the entire friggin' discussion is ridiculous.

This diary is a response to Forgiven's diary in which he argues that because Obama is "cool" (whatever the fuck that means, exactly), and because much of the world is enamored of American cool, it will result in improved relations between the US and the rest of the world.

Now, whatever anyone might think of this notion, and I honestly do not think much of it, Gilroy's response has nothing whatsoever to do with Forgiven's thesis.

Gilroy argues that Forgiven is wrong because the US is not cool and has never been cool.  Why?  Because the US has done bad shit in the past and continues to do bad shit in the present.

But "cool" has nothing to do with good behavior or bad behavior.  Let's recall that Charles Manson was once considered "cool" by a certain percentage of young American leftists.

So, Gilroy's entire thesis, to the extent that one can derive a "thesis" or argument in the drivel above, is just nonsense.  It also ignores the fact that Forgiven is right that much of the world is/was enamored of American cool.

Think about Elvis.

Think about James Dean.

Think about Dizzy Gillespie.

Much of the rest of the world just loves American cool.  

Think Iranian teenagers surreptitiously listening to American rock 'n roll.

In any case, Gilroy, as usual, is entirely full of beans.

Bet on it.





Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:18:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah (3.00 / 2)

The "cool" issue is a non issue.  I was interested in his laughable statement that America did well because of "luck."  

Thing about AG is he's interesting.  Even when he can't get out of his own way writing nonsense, it's still often "interesting."

The part I don't get about AG is what a coward he is.  He's all full of piss and vinegar here and other places but step in his arena, throw an elbow, respond and he runs out the room.  So I'm forced to  call him out...he responds like some heartbroken teenager..what's me banned, flails in response.  Thought he had more spine.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:30:42 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

tend to agree (7.50 / 2)

Above, I asked AG for a clarification on his essay, offered him my apologies for getting off on the wrong foot, and asked him for a fresh start.  Bastard hasn't even responded.

Phil, I think you and I would actually get along pretty damn well.  You don't live in the Northeast, do you?

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:54:04 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yes (0.00 / 0)

I live in NJ, work in Manhattan.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 18:59:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

awesome (9.00 / 1)

i'm in central PA.  i'll drop you a line if i'm headed out east, you do the same if you're headed here.

rock on.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 23:16:09 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Give me a fucking break. (8.00 / 5)

Now you want me to ban someone for using the word "pussy?"

I use the fucking word "pussy."

Sheesh.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

---

by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 14:12:19 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

The content and general IQ level on this blog continues to go downhill at an alarming rate, Maryscott. (0.00 / 0)

I am truly sad to see it happening.

Do you not see it yourself?

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:44:59 PM CDT

for the record, AG (9.00 / 1)

My IQ is 137.  

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 16:51:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

If you actually believe in IQ numbers as put forward by the mainstream IQ tests, then you are even more of a fool than I first thought, cleverguy. (8.00 / 1)

Bet on it.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 17:05:17 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

what's wrong with them? (0.00 / 0)

They're the most heavily researched scales out there.  

And why do you go straight to calling me a fool, when I made a distinct effort above to mend fences with you?

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 23:17:30 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Almost all so-called "research" is fudged in the corporate academic world, notsocleverguy. (1.00 / 1)

All you have to do to understand this concept is to pay attention to the ongoing rush of Big Pharma drugs that are almost daily proven to be more dangerous to your health than not taking them, and their almost immediate replacement by other "well-researched" drugs that will eventually also kill thousands.

IQ tests?

They are totally biased towards what you learn in middle class.upper class public schools and private , and what you learn in those schools is bad grammar, lame literature (or at best lame approaches to great literature) weak math/science and above all, false history.

Go celebrate Thanksgiving.

Go buy into the myth of a just America.

Go take your head out of your ass.

I'm rooting for you.

I really am.

Why do I refer to you as a fool when you made "a distinct effort above to mend fences" with me?

Because you are a fool, and you prove it just about every time that you open your mouth here. You may have some amount of native intelligence, but you have been (purposely) miseducated and worse,  you have bought into that miseducation.

The very definition of a fool, as far as I am concerned.

Wake the fuck up.

Or...don't.

Your choice. If of course you are lucky enough/gifted enough to have a choice.

It's up to you.

Later...

AG


Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 12:21:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Almost all? (0.00 / 0)

Almost all academic research is fudged?

Wow.

That's quite a statement, Gilroy.

So, let me get this straight.  You have a working knowledge of almost all academic research so that you can declare, with authority, that it's generally fudged.

You have working knowledge of almost all the various branches of academic scholarship, do you?

You are familiar with current thinking in the behavioral and social sciences?

And in the humanities?

And in science and engineering?

You are some kind of accomplished guy, Arthur.

Lessee, so in the behavioral and social sciences, you must be acquainted with current research in anthropology, criminal justice, economics, geography, history, sexual studies, international relations, political science, psychology, public administration, sociology, and urban studies.

You've gone through all these fields and, through your own research, have determined that the conclusions are fudged.

You really should get your ass over to Columbia University because I'm sure that there are more than a few people who would just love to know how you've drawn your conclusions.

Either that or you are talking entirely out of your ass.

One or the other.





Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 12:45:02 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

One or the other, eh? (0.00 / 0)

You live in a two dimension,al cartoon world, comicfish, and you are welcome to it.

Go ahead and buy into the system. That just means that you will be outta here sooner. One less rotted fish to fry.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 13:40:28 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

OK, Gilroy. (11.00 / 2)

You're right.  It's not necessarily either/or.

There could be other options.

You claimed that almost all academic research is fudged.  This is your claim.

Now, it could be you've researched the various fields of knowledge from geology to cognitive development to the history of the Ming Dynasty to aerodynamics and nutrition.  

Of course, no one since the 17th or 18th century has been able to claim working knowledge of the sum total of human scholarship, but it could be that you are Arthur Gilroy, Super Genius.

But there are other possibilities.  It could be that a team of researchers underwent a years long study and have come to this very conclusion and, at some point, you read this study.

Or, perhaps, the notion that came to you in a dream.  That's certainly possible.

Or, it could be that you pulled this witless notion entirely out of your ass.

So, why don't you clarify for us, will you, just how it is that you know that almost all academic research is fudged?

Otherwise we will have to conclude that you are entirely full of shit.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 18:23:52 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Spare Us (3.00 / 2)

What the heck I'll say it.  Most of your diaries read like you took fifty hits on a 3cyl. Water Bong shaped like a Buick LeSabre.  Non Sequitors, wild shifts in narrative, nonsensical kitsch and self indulgence on this goofy beat poet thing you try to pull off.  Most people are scratching their heads after reading it.  It's not because they've failed your IQ prerequisite...it's because they're not as high as you are.  

 

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 19:08:40 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I don't get high, P.I.S. (0.00 / 0)

And you don't get me.

No surprise.

Go hang out with cleverguy.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

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by: Arthur Gilroy @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 20:24:33 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

AG (8.00 / 1)

Miles Davis was a American.  Illinois.  You hearing me?  You're hanging out with the wrong crowd.  Like the Crips only with Tinfoil hats and no balls.  

"I'm do back on the Planet Earth."  Woody Allen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Bet on it.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 21:45:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

That's: (5.00 / 3)

"I'm due back on Planet Earth," lamebrain.

Maryscott...you watching this shit? Remember what I said about IQ levels. You want a good hang, you need to keep the level of the party up.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 23:11:49 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Is that (8.00 / 2)

really all you got?  Spellchecking.  Confronting you (calling you out) has been an interesting experiment.  Your reaction wasn't what I expected.

You lopped your balls off.  

I called you out AG,  because you have this tedious habit of dropping some missive in the room, people respond and you ignore them.  

You're pissed, I got under your skin and that's OK.  I tried to.    

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 16:30:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

is this your identity? (6.60 / 5)

you need to be against people, in constant conflict, fighting against people who are actually in agreement with you about a fair number of things?  

I just don't get it, man.  Do you really need to be this adversarial?  What is your deal?

And the whole running to Fairy Blogmother about stuff?  What the hell, dude, do you actually want her to ban people or what?  Or maybe you think she should jump in on your behalf and tell imbeciles like me to shut up?


If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Sun Mar 08, 2009 at 23:21:10 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I need no one to fight my battles for me, cleverguy. (6.00 / 1)

I like Maryscott; I like what she has tried to do with this blog and I see it deteriorating in front of my eyes.

So I say something.

It's her blog and she can do with it whatever she chooses.

I suggested long ago that rather than ban people she create some sort of dunce's corner where miscreants and other fools can be isolated to spew their foolishness. I did so on a professionally focused musician's forum that I ran and it worked exceedingly well. Those legitimate posters who wanted to engage assholes of various kinds were free to do so, only the dunce corner didn't interfere much with the flow of generally good information occurring on the blog and most fools (especially trolls)  eventually went away because they were causing no effective damage and thus were not getting their rocks off.

She did not take that advice.

So it goes.

I still wish her well.

I am also still posting here, still trying to bring some real information to the table.

So that goes as well.

Later...

AG

P.S. I wish you no harm, cleverguy.

I just wish that you'd wake the fuck up. Which is the opposite of harm.

Best of luck in the attempt.

You're gonna need it.

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 12:33:37 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

wake up? (9.00 / 1)

So, by doing basic research on the link between perception and coordination of movements, I am some sort of a sleeper?  Because my career path is one of research and learning about something other than what you value, I am somehow missing the point of existence?  

You don't know half as much as you think you do, man.  Your comments above about academic research?  That is totally out of line.  I won't claim to be a master researcher, but I can say that I am engaged enough in scientific research to tell you that all of the researchers I know in psychology are 100% ethical and rigorous in how they do their work.  

Tell me how to wake up, please, because I just don't get you.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 13:52:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Your "100% ethical and rigorous" research has proven to be wrong so many times that I cannot begin to tell you about it, cleverguy. (0.00 / 0)

Sometimes it's 100% ethical and rigorous and still comes up wrong.

But most of the time it is neither of those things...witness the thousands of tobacco studies sponsored by tobacco companies over about 100 years or the hundreds of thousands of skewed drug studies paid for by the drug companies for all that you need to know about that.

Pyschological research?

Please.

It is so-called "pyschological research" that has come up with the totally cockamamie idea of controlling anxieties and other emotional problems by the use of drugs. This is a failure of massive proportions, as is becoming clear now through the maze of Big Pharma-sponsored  smoke and mirrors "research" that strives to cover up that failure.

Chemical lobotomies. "Partial" lobotomies for the least disturbed. Great for working at McDonald's and equivalent poison factories; not much good for anything else.

And how has this epidemic of emotional illness been created?

Bad diet...including massive doses of bad medicine at an early age... and bad media as far as I am concerned. The average American 5 year-old witnesses more death and destruction on a screen today (with no effective intelligence censor to tell him or her what is "real" and what is not) than did the most viciously effective warriors of any era.

By the time they are about 14 they have seen more feelingless sexual display and contact onscreen than any live whore has ever experienced live.

Confused?

Bet on it.

Where is the "research" on that account?

It doesn't really exist, and if it does it is massively outweighed by the media money machine.

Confused?

You BET they are confused.

Act out?

Hell...give 'em a pill!!!

If that doesn't work, throw 'em in jail. That'll take  care of the problem!!

1 out of every 31 Americans is in jail today. That's about 1 out of every 17 or 18 males because the female jail population is miniscule. And probably more like 1 out of 8 or 10 minority males. Nice.

Good results from alla that research eh?

Nice work, white suits.

Way to go.

Wake the fuck up, kid.

Wake the fuck up.

Most of the brittle, shallow college girls you know will be on downers of some sort before they are in their mid-30s if this shit continues.

And of course if we do not crash the earthosphere due to all of the conflicting "research" (Gee, cleverguy...they can't ALL be right!!!) about what we are doing to the ecology of this planet.

Wake the fuck up.

AG


Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 14:37:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

forget it (11.00 / 2)

If all you want to talk about is medicines and psychopharmacology, then yes, you're right.

Stop telling me to wake up, though, because you don't know a damn thing about my work.  I have a paper under review at Psychological Science right now, and it has nothing to do with medicine or disorders.  It's a basic/theoretical study that is centered around understanding the link between social interaction and movement planning.  

Psychology is not all centered around the discovery of new medications, and it's not even all centered around the curing of disorders.  Psychology is the scientific study of mental life and behavior.  People in my field study sensation, perception, memory, language, decision making, problem solving, motor control, and other "nuts and bolts" processes of human thought.  Our interest in disordered individuals is only inasmuch as such individuals reveal, through their abnormal functioning, what structural alterations in neural substrates change about normal functioning.  Very few true psychologists even study pharmacology -- the people who do that work are psychopharmacologists, and they are much more biochemists and chemists than they are psychologists.  

So please, stop trying to pigeonhole me into being a psychopharmacological researcher, when that is NOT what I do.

I can tell you that most pharmacological research uses some very shady statistical practices to influence findings.  A very basic example is the use of unequal placebo and treatment groups -- when they do this, they falsely inflate the statistical power of their conclusions.  I'd go into a deeper explanation, but I know you're not going to listen anyway.  You're just going to keep telling me to wake up.  You know what?  You don't want to understand the field to which I've devoted my life, and you don't even want to understand the basic structure of the scientific community.  Big-pharma is NOT academia, and there is a distinction between basic and applied research.  A fundamental distinction that I don't think you've ever even considered, as evidenced by your remarkably dismissive treatment of "science" in your above post.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 17:18:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"Big Pharma, Bad Science" (0.00 / 0)

This from The Nation/2002:

Big Pharma, Bad Science  
By Nathan Newman

July 25, 2002

In June, the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most respected medical journals, made a startling announcement. The editors declared that they were dropping their policy stipulating that authors of review articles of medical studies could not have financial ties to drug companies whose medicines were being analyzed.

The reason? The journal could no longer find enough independent experts. Drug company gifts and "consulting fees" are so pervasive that in any given field, you cannot find an expert who has not been paid off in some way by the industry. So the journal settled for a new standard: Their reviewers can have received no more than $10,000 from companies whose work they judge. Isn't that comforting?

This announcement by the New England Journal of Medicine is just the tip of the iceberg of a scientific establishment that has been pervasively corrupted by conflicts of interest and bias, throwing doubt on almost all scientific claims made in the biomedical field.

You might want to read the whole thing, cleverguy.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

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by: Cheryl @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 16:05:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

I understand. (0.00 / 0)

Thank you, Cheryl, but I am not this kind of psychologist or researcher.  My interest is in the fundamentals of human thought and behavior, not in the medical treatment of disorders.

I agree 100% about the bad science in pharmacology, though.  

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 17:19:01 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

More on tainted research (0.00 / 0)

in the New York Times recently.

In some quarters of academia there is a deep longing for a return to the ivory tower - that time when the university was disconnected from commercial interests and faculty members were unsoiled by the financial rewards that can be associated with their research.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 17:50:50 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Good point, Curm. (0.00 / 0)

I suppose I'm in rather a sheltered, idealistic department and area of study.  Basic, behavioral research has the benefit of being remarkably cheap to perform (and of profoundly little commercial value), and thus less susceptible to corruption from outside sources.

Case in point:  my lab has been functioning without significant external funding for the last ten years.  Over that time, we've had probably a hundred publications.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 22:18:59 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

"profoundly little commercial value" (0.00 / 0)

That's the key. But, any form of research that has the capacity to advance big pharma, high tech industries, and weaponry, has become very corrupted. They're just throwing too much money around and there are too many researchers who have become  accustomed to the lifestyle their interest affords them. So much of science is hopelessly corrupted at this point. The scientific method has gone out the window in favor scientism and entrenched dogmas that serve moneyed interests. It's really very sad. I'm sure you've seen a bit of it, just not in your area of research.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 07:28:57 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

"the capacity" ? (0.00 / 0)

I just hope you're not throwing the baby out with the bathwater here, Curm.  It's my impression that scientists here at PSU are overwhelmingly and hopelessly idealistic, truly believing in scientific progress for the betterment of humankind, without the slightest mind paid to their own pocketbooks.  Ironically, the most cynical people I've met at Penn State are the folks from the more humanities-oriented disciplines.  While they don't chase after money (no one here really seems to do that, beyond trying to get to "distinguished" status and the couple-thousand pay raise associated with it), the humanities people do seem to have a certain cynicism associated with what they do, and I have never really understood it.  

Anyway, I agree that profit-oriented research is of course corrupted, but for example, my brother-in-law did some pretty advanced research with a DoD-funded organization in physical chemistry, and while the eventual applications of their work were related mostly to explosives, the science itself was peer-reviewed by independent academics, and it was generally well-regarded in their field.  

Moral of my rambling story:  don't toss the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to academic research.  Big Pharma is the exception, rather than the rule.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 08:44:35 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

Oh come now... (7.00 / 2)

I think we've all seen "Real Genius." We know how it works with military-industrial-academic complex.

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 09:01:01 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

sigh (0.00 / 0)

i give up.

If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

---

by: cleverguy82 @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 09:05:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

No, man... (11.00 / 1)

"...on this goofy beat poet thing you try to pull off."

AG ain't tryin' to "pull off" a damned thing. What you see is what you get. Thanks be to God there is one (1) fucking original still standing amongst the debris of banality...clean too.

it's because they're not as high as you are.  

Fuck you, mmmkay?

Now, here ya go. If you wanna see a stone junkie tell it like it is check out this guy.

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

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by: Cheryl @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 15:35:41 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Cheryl (6.00 / 1)

I don't find his act original. Reminds me of the three dozen or so H.S. Thompson wannabes who are regs on Democrat Underground.  You're more original than he is.

The "high" thing was an effort to get his goat (see pussy, coward above.)  I got his goat.  I'm for drug legalization, so I could care less if he does or doesn't smoke himself into a stupor.  He claims he doesn't, I believe him.

I would just like him to respond to legitimate replies to his diaries.  That's all.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 16:39:03 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

As soon as you make one, I'll reply. (0.00 / 0)

You will notice that I have replied to others' comments, negative or not.

You?

You ain't worth the powder.

Deal wid it.

AG

P.S. Hunter Thompson wannabe??

Not hardly.

From a My Left Wing post of mine called called Jules Siegel Pinned Hunter Thompson . Read it all if you want. (If you can, I suppose...I imagine your little mimd would get VEWY TIRED reading all of that stuff. But give it a try. It might be a learning expewience for you.)

When Thompson died, I posted a non-appreciation of his life and work on dKos, post-July 4th massacre. (I had re-upped there as Jess Fine. Didn't last long. It had become a sad excuse for a blog even then. Early 2005.)

It was originally a response to a Rude Pundit post on his own blog.

Here is the first installment:

   

Y'missed it, Rude...

   And it's right there in your post.

   Maybe he was sick, maybe not.

   Maybe he got fucked up one too many times...maybe he actually sobered up enough to see the truth.

   But the REAL reason he took himself out has to be shame.

   Pure and simple shame.

   Shame at having bet on Small K kerry.

   Shame at having finally lost his perfect pitch.

   Shame at having copped out to substance abuse once too often./blockquote>

Read on for a sampling of the many posts I wrote as simpering dKos counter-culture addicts attacked in "Banzai!!!"-like waves. I do not save much of what I write because it is mostly response to the ephemeral ebb and flow of popular newsculture. But HST's life, death and hero cult are more important than most of the fluff that passes for news in this system. I repost this writing  here because I think that the ongoing Hunter worship is a dangerously true picture of leftiness empty-headedness at its very worst.

Buh-bye, bubbeleh.

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

---

by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 21:32:48 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yeah (7.00 / 2)

Oh the Irony, you lamely mimic a guy you now want to be on the record chastising.  Of course, why write a diary about someone you don't regard as important? Well, you don't.  You dont' write that diary but you did.  Worse, you copy his cadence and try to pawn yourself off as some half assed version of him. Trust me...you're not.

Here's the other bit AG.  You'll note I don't take your bait about my relative intelligence or lack thereof.  It helps to have a hint of truth for something to be effective. You'll note, your reaction to me recently is proof of that theory.

You didn't respond to my legitimate replies because (as another poster noted) you have no response.  How can you defend the inane.

Thin skin unfortunately.  I bait you and you're all hot and bothered, protesting too,  too much.  I don't suppose you learned how to betray your insecurites so easily in those Jazz Clubs, over those many years.  It's a mystery to me. Maybe you'll win the next round.  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 22:36:07 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

Yep, and yep again. (0.00 / 0)

I repost this writing  here because I think that the ongoing Hunter worship is a dangerously true picture of leftiness empty-headedness at its very worst.

The fucker was no literary genius. He made a name for himself on the back of outrageous, self-indulgent, narcissistic, pre-pubescent ramblings. He had the audacity to beleive that the contrivances of complete self-absorption, fueled by
drugs and alcohol would sell.

He was right. It did sell. Sad, sad, sad. Those looking for a "prophet" found one in Hunter Thompson, clothed fully in sheepskin.

"We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a saltshaker half-full of cocaine and a whole multicolored collection of uppers, downers, laughers, screamers . . . Also, a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can. The only thing that really worried me was the ether.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge and I knew we'd get into that rotten stuff pretty soon . . ."

-Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, 1971

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

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by: Cheryl @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 13:35:32 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

My MAN!!! (0.00 / 0)

Mr. Burroughs.

THERE'S some shit!!!

Betcha he's a biggie out there at Penitentiary State Pen, eh?

AG

Government is the Entertainment Division of the Military-Industrial Complex.-Frank Zappa

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by: Arthur Gilroy @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 21:19:54 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

i'm sorry, was this directed at me? (6.00 / 1)

If so, I don't know.  I'm pretty well disconnected from the undergrad culture here, and the grad students I know read scientific work, primarily.  I've never heard W.S. Burroughs mentioned in my social circle.

Ironically, there is a state penitentiary just down the road from here.  I have even less an idea as to what they read in there.

The only work I know by Burroughs is the album he did with Tom Waits a while back.  It's not my favorite, though.


If you don't know what a platitude is, it's a platypus with an attitude. -Michael Ian Black

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by: cleverguy82 @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 22:16:14 PM CDT

[ Parent ]

A little food fer thought... (11.00 / 1)

"I tire of this banal chat...now is the time on Sprockets when we dance." ~Dieter/SNL

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by: Cheryl @ Tue Mar 10, 2009 at 00:43:00 AM CDT

[ Parent ]

For someone who claims to hate meta... (7.00 / 2)

Sheesh.

--7.88, --6.56      If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

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by: Maryscott O'Connor @ Mon Mar 09, 2009 at 19:23:34 PM CDT