My Obligatory "Palin, the Parvenu," Post

Parvenu? Tips... (7.00 / 1)

"I'll hire half the working class to kill off the other half."-- Jay Gould, robber-baron  

---

by: konopelli @ Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 09:55:34 AM CST

Conspiracies are wonderful (6.00 / 2)

but the one that you propose is just way to big and convoluted for anybody to wrap their heads around.  Even the conspirators couldn't keep all of these moving parts straight.  They happen to be alot dumber in real life than you give them credit for.  Try the John Patrick O'Neill killing if you like this sort of thing.   Peace  

---

by: imhotep @ Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 11:37:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

I had not though you so capable of naivete, imho... (0.00 / 0)

...tep


"I'll hire half the working class to kill off the other half."-- Jay Gould, robber-baron  

---

by: konopelli @ Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 12:28:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Dunno. (6.00 / 2)

John McCain would have given anything to be president.  You don't get that close to the Oval Office at his age and throw it intentionally because you wanna let the other party take the blame for the shitpile.  Nope.

Beatings will commence in five minutes. Please form a single line.

---

by: snark @ Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 15:23:11 PM CST

he din't have a choice--in either case (0.00 / 0)

he didn't look around at the crop of candidates and say I WANT SARAH...

they couldn't make it too obvious. if it started to look like they were really throwing it, they'd have gotten called on it. Bombin'John's palpable, fierce, snarling ambition was required to make the whole thing plausible, to balance the absurdity and the utter implausibility of pit-bull Palin.

"I'll hire half the working class to kill off the other half."-- Jay Gould, robber-baron  

---

by: konopelli @ Tue Nov 17, 2009 at 17:44:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I dislike palin 'cause she's an ignorant fool. (6.00 / 1)

     Which is the same reason I didn't like mcbush.

    Gender had nothing to do with it. Only teh stoopid did.

    But to be honest, I REALLY want to see palin run for preznit in '12.

    I know otherwise decent repug voters whose heads will explode, and convert them forever to dems if she gets the nomination.

    That's never going to happen, but I WOULD love to see that. She thought debating Biden was tough... :-)

    SIGH.

    vacuum

---

by: Vacuum @ Wed Nov 18, 2009 at 00:14:22 AM CST

Palin (0.00 / 0)

all this chat on the left lets you know who they fear

Gary











blog.ideasinwood.net

---

by: Gary P. @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 07:26:55 AM CST

oh, yeah (8.83 / 6)

we're scared shitless.  I think you should start a "Draft Sarah" campaign.  Donate the legal limit.

Please.  

There is nothing I'd rather see than a debate between Barack Obama and Winkin' Sarah.  His win would redefine "landslide."

I'm thinking the left should co-opt Rush's "Operation Chaos" strategy and vote for her in every open primary in 2012.  Dividing the Repubican Party into the corporate right and the crazy right would be a real win for the Democrats.

Insert witty quote here.

---

by: puzzled @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 10:09:55 AM CST

[ Parent ]

That's the standard line... (6.00 / 2)

Liberals are scared of Palin, and that's why we are attacking her.

I love their definition of vicious attack, too -- apparently anything less than complete and total adoration is considered a vicious attack by Palin and her supporters.  

How about that Palin/Beck idea floating around?  That would make for great tv -- at least until Beck stops tearing up when he shoves Vick's VapoRub into his eyes.

Obama 2012.  Because he didn't piss off enough people the first time around.

---

by: Joools @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 12:50:26 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I love Sarah Palin. (10.00 / 1)

All sorts of fun stuff came out, and continues to come out, due to her campaign and behavior afterward.

Not the least of which was this video, which I probably watched a gazillion times in the run up to the election:

Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 14:43:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

"Fear" in what sense? (7.00 / 4)

If you mean fear as in she's a political threat, nah. I think she's the best thing to happen to the left in ages. The damage she's doing to the Republican Party is epic poetry.

I do fear her though, in the way I fear lime green automobiles, orange lipstick, mullets, acid wash, and other tack. These things make me recoil. They make me clamp my hand over my mouth and shudder.

She is kind of compelling, though. In an uncontrollable, rubbernecky kind of way. You don't want to look. You look. She has that special brand of magnetism unique to the deeply narcissistic. There's a kind of field around her that says, "I think I'm the most fascinating person in the room. You should, too." But, as John Stewart says, when you peel the layers away, there's no onion.  

"What fresh hell is this?" -- Dorothy Parker

---

by: Curmudgette @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 15:22:18 PM CST

[ Parent ]

If (4.00 / 1)

she can generate lots of money for the party and turn-out for 2010 Congressional Candidates, it won't be funny at all.  And with all due respect Curm....that's exactly what's going to happen.  Do I think she would be a good President?  Doesn't matter, it's about money, turnout and independent voters.

No political experts I know (on either side) think she's a joke.  Sure, she plays into every Middle American Rube stereotype the left hates but that and a token will get you on the subway.  It's about money.  See Nate Silver on Countdown last night?  He didn't think she was a joke.

The "she's tearing the party apart" meme is a manufactured story.  Look at what independent voters are doing these days.  Keep on making fun of her and see how that plays in swing states.  Oh but the polls on her approvals...watch them move, they're already moving in her favor.

BTW, It's the Left Wing Media that's been obsessed with her since November and given her the martyr status she's enjoying now.

I do a show, we just started talking about her again, Olbermann never stopped.  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 17:41:08 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't think she's a joke (5.00 / 1)

at least politically, she's not. Today, she's a player, big time. And you very well could be right, she may produce large for 2010.

Beyond that? I'll be surprised. Nate made some good points, as has Tom Schaller over at Nate's place. I think he identifies two likely scenarios which will take her out of the running in the 2012 primaries.

His No. 6. She'll lose her cool between now and then. Just a hunch because I've played psychologist and diagnosed a pathology. (One that many here are familiar with.) Doesn't need a name, but I think she'll blow.

His No. 8. A media career. While he compares her to Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter, I suspect both of them would (in private only) take that as an insult. And I wouldn't blame them. A better comparison would be closer intellectual equals, Brian Kilmeade and Steve Doocy. But I'd be shocked if there's not a job out there for her that is just too lucrative for her to pass up.

Or maybe both.

And the polls on her? Seems they're still pretty mixed. Schaller cites a recent CNN poll that has 70% saying she's not qualified. And idependents are almost as high. That's a tough one to overcome.  

to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance .  G. Washington

---

by: Kane in CA @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 18:55:11 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Thanks (5.00 / 2)

That's some good referenced snark.

I love the intellectual touchstone stuff, like some voter or Nielsen House gives a flying fuck about clips they never seen of Anchors on "Countdown" or Think Progress.  It's self masturbatory noise.  They never heard it and it doesn't matter.

Besides, Malkin and Coulter don't have the political chops she has.

Again, I don't look at it in terms of the Presidency, it's about what can she do for 2010.  Every piece of vitriol is money in the bank for her and others.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:25:14 PM CST

[ Parent ]

what I truly don't understand (6.50 / 2)

is how someone who makes George Bush look like an intellectual powerhouse is taken seriously at this level by anyone.

She's mendacious, petulant and vapid.  Not exactly the qualities one looks for in a Commander in Chief.

Jon Stewart's bit on her was dead on.  Everything she says is like a conservative MadLib, with no indication that she actually understands what she's saying.

Insert witty quote here.

---

by: puzzled @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:06:12 PM CST

[ Parent ]

The Bush (0.00 / 0)

part is telling.  What you say about her is exactly what the left said about Bush.  Maybe not you but I follow these things Puzzled.  He was the boy idiot Chimp in Chief.

He cleaned your clocks twice.  Thats' my point.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:12:25 PM CST

[ Parent ]

that's not my point (6.00 / 2)

We can argue whether Bush "cleaned our clocks."  We can argue the legitimacy of his elections 'til the cows come home.  And we can debate the results of eight years of his policies on the U.S. and on the world.  

But what frightens me is that there is a large segment of the American electorate that not only accepts the idea of having an anti-intellectual leader, they welcome it.  They openly disdain academia, book larnin' and fancy talk.

I consider myself reasonably intellegent and possessing decent intellectual skills honed by working my ass off in college and law school.  And I want a President who's smarter than I am.  I'm smart enough to know that it's a job which requires more brains than I've got.  

We hear all the time of how complicated the world is--how Obama is dealing with so many issues--the economy, health care, Afghanistan, and on and on.

I may not agree with his decisions, but I'd at least like to think he understands the implications of his actions.  I don't believe Sarah Palin has that ability, and I'm stunned that anyone would think her capable of making the kinds of decisions which face a President.

Insert witty quote here.

---

by: puzzled @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 19:33:41 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I know (0.00 / 0)

but it doesn't matter if you cast her a prima facie example of a segment of America embracing "Anti-Intellectualism."

I heard Chris Matthews do that on Wednesday.  Nobody watches him in Swing States.  Actually nobody watches him period.

It's a loser political strategy.  There's an antipathy towards that kind of thinking among much of the right and huge part of the middle.  Wall Street, the Harvard President who needs a teleprompter or who's "smarter than you are" but just rolled by the Chinese, Russians and Iranians.  Narratives work.

Plus, the clock cleaning wasn't just winning.  Bush foiled the Democrats at every turn, even after 2006.  The idiot did that.

It's about not having contempt for the audience.  In this case, the audience are voters, "Anti-Intellectual" voters.

Here's my issue always.  It's not about how you "feel" or what you "want."  It's a WAR and you have to play smart to win.  Calling her stupid as a tactic is.........dumb.  Feels good I'm sure but not very effective...see Bush.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 20:48:20 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Phil, (0.00 / 0)

all puzz is saying is that a president of the US should be intelligent and educated.

Do you not agree?




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 13:30:32 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Well (0.00 / 0)

That's not all Puzzled is saying.  Puzzled is saying Palin a moron and the President should be intelligent and educated.  She's no moron.  

Bush went to Yale and Harvard and most of you thought he is/was an imbecile.  You watched Oliver Stones' "W" and went "yep."  It's silly.

Reagan, Truman and others didn't have that pedigree and were transformational figures.

The job requires equal amounts of hubris, political skill and LEADERSHIP.  

My point is mocking her from the elitist perch (dressed in action words like "Anti-Intellectual") is a loser political strategy.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 14:35:56 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't believe (6.00 / 1)

I called her a moron.  While I don't think her IQ breaks the bank, she does have excellent political instincts.  But I don't know that she's got the kind of analytical skills I'd like my President to possess.

I also don't believe that an Ivy League degree is a necessary or sufficient qualification for the job of President.  Not all people with Ivy League educations are brilliant (and yes, I think Bush was a legacy student, who by his own admission didn't work hard at school), and I know many brilliant people with degrees from lesser schools, or without any formal higher education.

And no, I haven't seen "W."  I just don't care that much.

Insert witty quote here.

---

by: puzzled @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 15:13:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I actually do not think that either (6.00 / 1)

Bush or Palin are morons.

I do not believe a moron can be as successful politically as they are.

They are certainly not intellectuals and I do not see that either are particularly well educated, despite Bush's degrees and where they came from.

I think that they're both intellectually lazy and relatively uneducated compared to most other politicians.

But I do not think that they are dumb.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 15:36:15 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I know you think this (0.00 / 0)

"I think that they're both intellectually lazy and relatively uneducated compared to most other politicians."

My point is that it doesn't matter.  This is the line of attack and it's not effective.

Do you deny this is the line of attack?  Remember, I travel in your world.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 15:45:22 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Sure. (0.00 / 0)

It was used on Reagan also, as you are more than well aware.

To some extent it's a tactic, but I also think that most of the people who make those kinda noises sincerely believe what they are saying.

I also think, tactic or no, that at heart the criticism is correct.

Neither Bush, nor Palin, are intellectually equipped to be president of the US.

I say this not as a political tactic, but because I believe it to be true.

Remember, I am one of those growing more and more disgusted with the Democratic party and the progressive movement.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 16:04:42 PM CST

[ Parent ]

No need (6.00 / 1)

to qualify the remark.  I know you believe it.  My point was about the tactic not the belief.  I know too many people who've known both people off the stage to share in your belief but that's OK.

Why are you more disgusted with the Democratic Party and the Progressive Movement?  Lots of big brains in the bunch.

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 16:56:09 PM CST

[ Parent ]

LOL. (0.00 / 0)

That's true.

A lot of people in the left tubes are disgusted with the Dems because they think that the party is not progressive enough.

What I think is that progressivism as a movement has some pretty ugly trends in it.

For example, I despise the savagery with which many so-called progressives seek to demean and dehumanize their opponents.

Not that this doesn't happen on the right, but I am not on the right.  I am a liberal critic of liberalism and progressivism.

I also really truly dislike the paranoid apocalyptoid trend among progressives.  The people who think that tomorrow morning we will awaken to find ourselves in a fascist police state or who believe the US is already a fascist police state.

Or the arm-chair revolutionaries who have no grasp of any actual revolutionary theory.

And then, of course, there is the little matter of that tiny country off the eastern coast of the Mediterranean which some progressives love to bully around and spit at as they call it "criticism."

Also, so called "human rights activists" who do not really give a shit about human rights... or they care about the human rights of some people while completely ignoring the human rights of millions upon millions of others.

The liberal netroots, for example, could give two shits about Darfur or Congo or Chechnya or even Tibet, really.

And then there is the tendency to turn a blind eye to terrorism or to justify it on the grounds that the US is really a very, very bad actor and so we deserve what we get.




Lord of the Karmafishes

---

by: Karmafish @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 17:11:30 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Yes (9.00 / 1)

As a sort of outsider, I see similar things.

There's a pecking order, hierarchical, almost High Schoolish mentality that doesn't exist on the Right.  

On the Right it's the Populists vs. the David Frum/Brooks/Weekly Standard crowd.  It's much more fractured on the Left.

My biggest complaint has always been the over-arching histrionics and tone, especially on Kos.  Everyone is so over the top passionate and aggrieved.  Constant references to "we" and "our," like they're trying to will some consensus while they pick fights with each other.  

All of which, frankly, never struck me as particularly "intellectual."

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Fri Nov 20, 2009 at 18:01:47 PM CST

[ Parent ]

BTW (5.00 / 1)

This issue, came up again with Matthews....Here's the Right's take on it....

http://hotair.com/archives/200...  

---

by: PHIL. I. STINE @ Sat Nov 21, 2009 at 08:31:11 AM CST

[ Parent ]

clarification (4.00 / 1)

I'm not disputing the point you're making, just expounding on my own questions.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Palin's potential impact on the 2010 races.  I think the best thing the left could do about Palin would be to leave her alone and let her divide the Republican Party.  

The McCain campaign staff's response to some of the claims in her book are a gift to the Democrats.  If she's attacked from the left, eventually the Republicans will find a way to circle the wagons and mend fences.  

Political parties are a little like families.  We can bitch and moan endlessly about our family members, but if someone from outside the family says something negative about them, we instantly rally to their defense.  

Many marriages could be saved if the parties would realize this basic fact.  

Insert witty quote here.

---

by: puzzled @ Thu Nov 19, 2009 at 20:09:07 PM CST

[ Parent ]